| Author |
Message |
David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI
Senior Member
Username: David_axt
Post Number: 164
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 01:41 pm: |    |
Do you have a problem with the owner dictating your page format?
Recently we had an owner insist that we remove our project number, print date, and file name from our specs. They wanted us to put their bid number and issue date on the documents.
This was days before the bid documents were to be issued. This is no small project. It's 3 volumes. I had to tell the 10 consultants to change their documents as well.
I have a problem with this because the documents are an instrument of the architect's service. We put our project number on the specs for filing and billing purposes. We put the print date on the documents in order to determine the latest issue. We put the file path in order to find the file on the server.
Their bid number is prominently displayed in large font on the cover of each volume. If the documents are ever reissued we will have to change all the specs.
The main beef I have is what difference does it make? Did this change add value to the project? It shure took everyone time to make the changes. The owner did not insist we change the drawing titleblock.
Your thoughts please. |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: Wpegues
Post Number: 217
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 02:32 pm: | |
No, in 20+ years with several firms, I have never had this request.
But some items...
Dates - I have never thought it the Architect that says what date it should have. Maybe we suggest it, but especially if the owner has their documents that they are issuing, we will always defer to them and date our documents with their date so that all the documents have the same date. We request that this occur in the 2nd to last week before it goes out the door so that we can make a mockup of the changes to header/footer for consultants that prepare their own documents to match.
I would hesitate to put the bid number on the pages, that's kind of useless after bids are completed, and if they put it on the cover that is really sufficient. So what if the GC's split up the books to their subs, the subs place their prices to the GC's, not the owner, the GC's have their own filing systems and may not even use the bid number in communications with their subs.
I don't understand the complaint about "if the documents are ever reissued we will have to change all the specs." That should be done anyway, giving them a new date -if nothing else to differentiate old copies that may be floating around - you may have made minor or major changes, such as incorporating addenda and other revisions, so the documents should be different - and should all bear the same date, different from the previous bid version.
I don't see a problem in redating. There are very fast ways of doing this. I use to have a 'publish/subscribe' system that would take me about 15 seconds to redate 10, 100 or even 1000 or more documents, because all my masters were set linked to a header page. All I had to do was modify the header page, all other sections looked to this file for the header. I had to stop using that when MS in their wisdom broke it for over a year. I could fix it now again if I wanted. But, now opening each section individually and making the change takes me about 20 minutes to do 200 or so sections. I use a word macro that I created that utilizes the search replace command where I search for the old date or whatever I enter, and it replaces ALL locations with the new entry, saves the document and closes it. So, I open up all of one division's documents at once, and just hit a 2-key combination to do the macro as each document saves and closes.
We put our project number on our documents, and we insist that all consultants also use our project number so that the work is a project manual with a consistent look.
I don't use file paths - I don't think anyone really needs them. All files for a project are in a single folder with the folder correctly labeled. Moving and archiving projects invalidates the path anyway.
Drawing titleblocks - I think its well, silly I would say to be polite -grin! for the Owner to have you go through all this custom work for your project manual and then not have the drawing title blocks agree. They should be as close as possible in the information they convey.
William |
Robin Treston (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 02:38 pm: | |
I encounter this request occassionally. Sometimes it is the Owner or sometimes my client (the Architect) requests a specific format. It is a pain, but I will usually do it. Depending on the size of the project and the value of the client, I will usually do it "gratis". |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: Bunzick
Post Number: 131
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 02:54 pm: | |
We try to confirm the page header and footer information with the client. We do have public clients that insist upon their project or bid number being on each page. If we know this in advance, it's not a problem. Since some clients insist that their project number is on all correspondence and documentation, I can understand this requirement. We do not put the file & path. We don't put our project number (yet) but I think we should.
I have, in the past, done exactly what William describes--having all the header data in one document with links in each section. I don't use that method now. If you are a Masterspec subscriber, they have a nice multi-file tool that allows you to create, save and reuse headers and footer, and automatically update all (or part) of the specs in a folder. (It actually works on any Word documents.) They also have a global search and replace tool, though I haven't used it much. |
David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI
Senior Member
Username: David_axt
Post Number: 165
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 03:37 pm: | |
>>I don't understand the complaint about "if the documents are ever reissued we will have to change all the specs." <<
What I meant was what if the owner decides to reissue the documents at a later date, then the issue date is not vaild. The Owner has already pushed back the issue date and I expect it to be delayed one more week. That means I have to revise all my specs....again and again.
We do put a new date on a spec that is reissued or changed by addendum, Change Order, ASI, etc.
It would be nice to have tools that would automatically change the header/footer. That is one thing that I liked about SpecLink.
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Lynn Javoroski
Senior Member
Username: Lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 32
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 04:47 pm: | |
If you work for any of the varied government entities, you must change your format to match theirs. Page numbers, font, headers and footers, plus covers; usually all must change to work for the federal, state and sometimes local agencies. If you don't have an automatic system for these changes, your word processor probably has the capability of making many of them, either as a feature of the system, or by writing macros. I'd suggest that if you want to do this easier and quicker, you learn what your word processor can do for you. I wrote a macro (in Word) that changed font, added line numbers, removed the CSI headings for parts and articles and the like, moved everything over to the left margin and changed the footer to what the client wanted. It took me close to one hour to do one section. But once it was done and the macro recorded, subsequent sections took only as long as it took to open, click on the macro button, and save. (actually, I guess the macro did take about 1-2 seconds to perform the operation). And I'm not exceptionally great at this! I'm sure that someone more familiar with the systems could accomplish it faster.
And I guess that I hold to the bottom line that it is the client who is paying me (even though in the case of the government, I'm originally paying it!). |
Richard Hird (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 05:00 pm: | |
David:
I do not know which processing system you use, but you can change dates to whatever you want in any system with a "current date command". Just temporarily change the clock on the computer to the required date and print. You have to remember to change it back though.
There are better ways that I use with my standard program; macros, or compiling all the sections into a single file for printing with a common header/footer. They allow me to do more than the date, but I never fix a date so in a pinch I can still use the changing the clock method.
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Alan Mays, AIA
Senior Member
Username: Amays
Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 05:17 pm: | |
David,
I too like the database solution that Speclink does by allowing these things to be easily done. I just wish that they also did "Mac software". I understand that Speclink is basically a MS Access database program. Why doesn't Arcom also make such a system for Masterspec. Linx isn't there. Speclink has advantages due to the database solution. Also their link to Arcat can be helpful when writing those special one-off sections. What I don't like as much is no outline or short form sections that Arcom does have and of course the "green sheets" data sheets.
The ideal solution would be a blend of both systems that had a browser interface so that someone did not have to use special programs or platforms.
Just dreaming again! |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: Bunzick
Post Number: 132
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 05:28 pm: | |
Per Richard's comment: Word uses the {PRINTDATE} field to automatically include the date the document was printed.
In word, you can automate the date as William mentioned by using the {includetext} field. This field in your spec section can "copy in" text from another document. By using a bookmark in that other document, you can copy in only the text you have identified with the bookmark.
(If anyone wants further assistance with the Word ideas, let me know.)
Per several others: Masterspec subscribers - you really need to check out Masterworks for header/footer changes, as well formatting changes Lynn talks about.
Per David: If the documents haven't changed, but are just re-issued, it may not be necessary to change the date. The important thing is that the documents all have the same date. I'm not sure what your office's procedure is, but are they changing the date on all of the drawings too? (Sounds like additional services to me!) |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: Sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 23
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 06:43 pm: | |
I use links in headers, footers, and other locations to extract repeated information from a source document. If any of that information changes, I change just the source document and everything else updates when printed. See the series of articles titled "SpecProcessor!" in the library at www.CSI-MSP.org. |
John Carter
New member
Username: jbc
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 11:52 pm: | |
We are independent specifiers and we offer our clients any format or style they want. It is not a big deal to do this or even change it later - the trick is that you really need to know a lot about Word, formatting and styles.
Also we use Masterspec, which comes with a Word toolbar called Masterworks; you can do many global formatting changes with Masterworks, and it will rebuild headers and footers while you go off and drink a cup of coffee.
If you have any specific questions please throw them at us, because we know Word very well.
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Reid Pierre Condit
Advanced Member
Username: pierre
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 04:27 pm: | |
Allow me to take advantage of your offer: All I have is WORD 2000 - no Masterworks, Linx, EditSpec, or anything that might be available from
BSD SpecLink. Global changes are not of great importance, although that capability would be useful. What I do need, given a fully automated 3-part CSI outline format, is a routine, wizard, macro or whatever for modifying the styles of a section. It is all very well to introduce a new template into a section, but then one has the problem of changing the style of each paragraph to conform to the corresponding style in the newly introduced template. So far the only method I have found involves redefining the styles of the existing template, renaming them, and finally saving the redefined and renamed styles as a new template. This procedure, however, is too time-consuming and must be done for each section. Do you have a solution for this problem? I might add that I do have access to WORD 2002 (XP), should the answer lie there, but I have yet to use that program. By the way, many years ago I used to use WordPerfect in fully automated outline form. I don't recall that chaning styles would have been a problem in WordPerfect because one was able to make formating changes with respect to outline levels throughout a section in one place rather than for each paragraph as WORD seems to require. Am I correct in thinking that therein lies the superiority of WordPerfect to WORD? |
Richard L Matteo
Advanced Member
Username: rlmat
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 04:39 pm: | |
I started in the specification world with WordPerfect and was required to use Word in a previous firm. We now use both, (our masters & most of our specs are produced in WordPerfect)mainly because our consultants and others defaulted to Word. As for me, to parphrase an old saying, they will have to pry the mouse from my cold (not yet dead) fingers before I ever give up WordPerfect as a spec writing tool.
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David Stutzman
Intermediate Member
Username: david_stutzman
Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 01, 2003 - 07:27 pm: | |
Reid
It is easier in WordPerfect, but doable in Word. Here is the process provided you use styles to format your documents: We adjust formats for nearly every project to suit our client's desires. Total process to format 100 files including project specific header/footer and date on each document – about 20 minutes – less if we have used the same format before.
Open one of your specs in Word. Modify the style definitions until you are happy with the results. Save the document as a template document *.dot. Do not change the default folder that Word selects when you change the file type to a template.
Close the newly created template file. Then record a macro to apply the new template to your documents. Open one of your files that you want to reformat. I suggest using a copy of a file until you are confident about making this process work. Under Tools/Macro select record new macro. Name the macro whatever you want. Remember Word does not allow spaces or punctuation in macro names. I usually use Apply_Client_Styles as my macro name.
Then go to Tools/Templates and Add-ins. Click the Attach button and locate the template file you just created. Mark the checkbox for Automatically Update. Click OK. Save the document. Then go to Tools/Templates and Add-ins and uncheck Automatically Update. This last step prevents the file from trying to update each time the file is opened – a problem if you transmit files to others that do not have the template.
Go to Tools/Macos and stop the macro recorder.
Now just run the macro on your other files. You can edit your toolbars to add a button to run the macro directly from the toolbar.
If you subscribe to SPECTEXT there is a nifty tool called macro applicator that will allow you to run the macro you recorded on every or selected files in a folder without having to manually open each file.
Good luck.
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Reid Pierre Condit
Senior Member
Username: pierre
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 09:44 pm: | |
David: Thanks for your step-by-step instructions. I numbered them and systematically followed as directed. Doing so did not work. I can think of several reasons, but am uncertain which may apply.
Consider this possibility: WORD 2000 does not permit creating macros using mouse clicks. Only keystrokes will be recorded in the macro. Your instructions utilize mouse clicks. Is it possible your procedure first requires translating clicks into keystrokes? or perhaps you are using another version of WORD which does permit creating macros with mouse clicks as opposed to keystrokes? The macro I created using your procedure only succeeded in my exchanging templates; it did not change the style properties of each paragraph in the document. . . Meanwhile, I will search out Sheldon Wolf's "SpecProcessor" for more precise clues for creating a functioning macro. It has always seemed to me that the problem was in principle soluble with a macro, but the complexity of that macro seems daunting in view of how complex automated outline formating is. Perhaps one could create a macro for changing each outline level, but even that seems more complicated that what anybody on this thread has implied to be necessary. |
David Stutzman
Advanced Member
Username: david_stutzman
Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 03, 2003 - 10:47 pm: | |
Reid,
Word does not record mouse clicks in macros for moving around in documents. It will record the results of mouse clicks that execute a command.
I do not understand why the procedure did not work. We use it for nearly every project. We use it for Word 97, 2000, and XP.
The result of the macro should look something like this:
Sub Apply_Dagit_Styles()
'
' Apply_Dagit_Styles Macro
' Macro recorded 7/24/02 by David Stutzman
'
With ActiveDocument
.UpdateStylesOnOpen = True
.AttachedTemplate = _
"C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\Microsoft\Templates\Dagit-Saylor MS SpecStyles.dot"
End With
With ActiveDocument
.UpdateStylesOnOpen = False
.AttachedTemplate = _
"C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\Microsoft\Templates\Dagit-Saylor MS SpecStyles.dot"
End With
End Sub
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Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza
Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, December 05, 2003 - 05:20 pm: | |
I love the way we as specifiers dive into the forest and look at the tree bark with magnifying glasses. I'd like to go back to the edge of the forest, however, and touch on one issue that David noted in his original post - that is, that documents issued under an architect's seal constitute instruments of service. The state that licensed the architect and the authority reviewing the documents and enforcing the codes makes certain assumptions about architects' instruments of service. The most important assumption is that the architect takes responsibility for their content.
While we frequently modify our page formatting in order to accomodate client requests, we would be very disinclined to remove information we considered important to the document, which includes our name, the consultant's name if any, the date of issue, the project name, and our project number. We recognize that documents get scattered during handling and want someone to know what they are reading when they pick up a sheet or a section. |
Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 69
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 07:09 pm: | |
David: I verify page formatting in writing (or at least email) with the owner not later than the end of DD. If they change it after that, its an extra service, and I bill an additional 10 hours for it, (even though we can usually make the change easily with software) and ask the consultants to bill it as additional services. I was a stickler about this as a consultant, and have managed to get my office to agree with that approach now, finally. |
David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 209
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 07:41 pm: | |
Anne,
Good idea. The Owner dropped the bombshell on us 2 days before printing.
My boss asked for additional services. I don't know if we got it though.
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Reid Pierre Condit
Senior Member
Username: pierre
Post Number: 10
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 29, 2003 - 10:55 pm: | |
David Stutzman: Got a project out the door since last we communicated. Then you kindly reproduced your macro for modifying styles by applying a new template. I finally today found the time to compare that with the macro I generated from your original instructions and it appears identical. Only difference I could find (other than "WINDOWS" in lieu of "Documents and Settings\User8" -- probably because I'm on a network?) was "ActiveDocument.Save" line following first "End With". Although I don't think that should make a difference, I edited it out. Still the macro did not work. . . Perhaps we do not share the same expectation: by applying your macro, I expect to replace an existing set of autooutline styles contained in an existing template and distributed among many paragraphs of an existing spec section with a different, but corresponding, set of autooutline styles contained in a new template, each new style replacing the existing style on its corresponding level throughout the document. . . This is not happening and frankly, as I try to interpret the macro without benefit of any special programing knowledge apart from a class in Fortran completed many years ago, I don't see why this macro would do anything more than replace the template without effecting existing styles associated with individual paragraphs. If we are not misunderstanding one another, what is it that I am missing? . . .I am reproducing my macro below for your comment. Deleted line is in brackets. When I run this macro now, I get "run time error number 1498."
Sub Apply_CES_template()
'
' Apply _CES_template Macro
' Macro recorded 12/3/2003 by User 8
'
With ActiveDocument
.UpdateStylesOnOpen = True
.AttachedTemplate = _
"C:\Documents and Settings\User 8\Application Data\Microsoft\Templates\CES Template.dot"
End With
[ActiveDocument.Save]
With ActiveDocument
.UpdateStylesOnOpen = False
.AttachedTemplate =
"C:\Documents and Settings\User8\Application Data\Microsoft\Templates\CES Template.dot"
End With
End Sub |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 46
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 12:51 am: | |
Now you have to do a global search-and-replace, substituting each style from the old template with corresponding style in the new template you just attached. The only catch is that both the old and new styles have to include auto-numbering. If all of the text is in a single style, only you can decide which style to apply to each paragraph.
Your comments indicate that you already have auto-numbering, though, so the search-and-replace should work. For example, if the article style in the existing document is ART, and the article style in the new document template is H2, just replace the style ART with the style H2. Then replace all of the first level paragraph styles, and so on.
Do one document that way to become familiar with how it's done, then turn on the macro recorder and do it again for all of the styles you want to change. When you're done, stop the macro recorder and assign the macro to an icon on your toolbar, and you can replace styles with one click.
I have a set of macros for similar purposes. The most complex will attach a new template, change margins, insert headers and footers for odd and even pages, remove blank paragraphs, delete extra spaces after periods and colons, and more. Others do only a few of those things, for those sections that don't need a complete overhaul.
When a client requires a different format, create a new document template, redefine the auto-numbering in that template, and simply attach it to each section. One thing that doesn't do is change margin settings, so I create a new macro that both attaches the new template and changes the margins. |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 178
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 09:50 am: | |
This still may not work. If you have a template attached, with the "update styles on open" box checked, the document will instantly take on the formatting of the attached template, assuming that the style names are the same.
This potentially missing element is the LISTNUM. This is a listing of the auto-numbering instructions, and it is saved on an individual computer. Word will, in some situations that I cannot precisely explain (because it is dasterdly complex and undocumented), not properly create the newly numbered list definition. I found that the most reliable way I could change the styles was to create a macro that reformats the new syle definitions. One-by-one, the macro actually sets and saves the style definitions that I want. The macro still runs quickly, and I am certain to get what I want. |
David Stutzman
Senior Member
Username: david_stutzman
Post Number: 15
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 30, 2003 - 01:49 pm: | |
Reid,
The idea is to substitute one template for the other. This will change the format of the entire document. If your CES template was the original template, then you need to create a new template with the new formats for all the styles that were contained in the original template.
For our projects, this usually means modifying the normal style to change font and font size, changing the outline styles to modify the indents, line spacing, auto numbering style, etc. Then we use the macro to apply the new template to the existing document.
If you revise the style names in the new template, then you will need to reapply the style to each paragraph. So keep all the style names from the original template, just modify the format.
If you still have problems with this, email me directly and send samples of the files you are trying to work with. I'll see if I can help.
Dave
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