Listing rep's phone # in the specs

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Author Message David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: David_axt Post Number: 151 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 01:11 pm:    Even though it is against CSI Section Format we list the representatives, their phone number, e-mail, website, etc. in our specifications. We also list this information about the manufacturer. I never used to include this information until I worked for this office. This practice has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that our CA person and Contractor can easily find out who to contact. It supposedly also keeps the reps on their toes because their name is in the spec. The disadvantage is that I spend time updating this information instead of specifying/researching products. Your thoughts please. Jerome J. Lazar Advanced Member Username: Lazarcitec Post Number: 6 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 02:25 pm:    We list the manufacturer, manuf. toll-free phone number, and the website. We find that the rep's name and number can be found thru the manufacturer. Contractors bidding the work seem to appreciate this info and it typically does not change as often as the rep's name and number. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: Bunzick Post Number: 121 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 02:36 pm:    We will occasionally add a city and phone number for very unusual products that we believe pose difficulty for contractors to locate. For example, we occasionally use a certain type of marine hardware that contractors would be unacustomed to sourcing. Otherwise we do not list contact information, and I never have in any of the other firms I worked for. Once in a great while we will get a call on how to locate a company, and we then give them that information. In the long run, fielding the questions this way saves a lot of time, I think. Doug Frank FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: Doug_frank_ccs Post Number: 41 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 03:06 pm:    Used to be, maybe still is, that reps wanted to get their name and number into the spec so they would get proper credit for the sale. I have always (at least almost always) refused to include that information, for many of the same reasons already mentioned above. In addition though, it makes me look like I'm not paying attention when I list a local Houston phone number for a project in East McKeesport. Jo Drummond Senior Member Username: Jo_drummond Post Number: 65 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 07:20 pm:    Reps. would love to have you list them in the spec. Their 15 minutes of fame. Problem is, by the time the job is on the street, the rep. is probably working for someone else, or has been moved to another territory. I list manufacturers, name, address, phone and FAX. I have a section in Division 1 that explains that I don't list internet addresses, but I refer them to this forum for links to the manufacturers. If there is a really wierd product, I might list a distributor, that is if the distributor is a company and not a person. But only occasionally. Almost all manufacturers have 800 numbers, which I list. Tracy Van Niel Senior Member Username: Tracy_van_niel Post Number: 38 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 07, 2003 - 10:52 am:    We do the same as John, include the manufacturer's telephone number for more specialty type items, but not every manufactured item in the specifications. I also agree with Jo, a lot of reps seem to play musical chairs. Between the time the section is written, issued for bid, and construction begins, the rep you talked with may no longer be with the same manufacturer. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: Wpegues Post Number: 199 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 04:19 pm:    We list only the product name and the manufacturer's company name. No phone, no web site, nothing else. In doing commercial office building and high rise residential work in considerable quantity with numerous contractors, there has been only one time over the past several years that a contractor could not find the product or manufacturer. And that was because they had been acquired and the name completely done away with and they were not really looking too hard. In this case, listing the web site, phone number or rep (it was a manufacturer's rep through the company, not an independent) would have been of no use. If I list the phone number, and it comes back changed, all that does is give a lazy contractor the opportunity to RFI the office asking us to track it down for them. There are adequate sources (experience shows) for the contractor to find manufacturer's. William John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: Bunzick Post Number: 123 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 05:00 pm:    Thank you William, for amplifying my point, which is essentially that we as architects and specifiers are under tremendous fee pressure. We shouldn't take on tasks that aren't necessary for the practice of our work, and generate no revenue. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: Wpegues Post Number: 200 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 08:00 pm:    John, Is not only the fee pressure - I don't need the time and expense to track down and maintain phone number, web site and rep names and numbers in my masters either. Its hard enough just trying to keep track of what company has taken over another or spun off something so that it has a new corporate name. I am not going to add anymore to my tasks, especially when its just a favor that is totally unappreciated and unnecessary. William John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: John_regener Post Number: 98 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Friday, August 08, 2003 - 08:40 pm:    William and John: In another market, it may well save the design professional's time to indicate the city and telephone number of the product manufacturer. Under competitive bidding conditions with perhaps less-sophisticated bidders, it can save the design professional time from having to answer many calls about "where do I find this product?". Similarly, I haven't had much (I really can't recall any) negative experience from listing the manufacturer, city and telephone number. Is it a hassle to keep current? Yep. Is it worth the hassle? In a competitive bidding environment, I think it is. I think it also may set a positive tone with prospective bidders if the specifier makes their job just a little easier. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: Wpegues Post Number: 201 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Sunday, August 10, 2003 - 12:10 am:    John, But, I would say that about about 50% of our residential high rise work is competitive bid to multiple general contractors, and about 20% of the commercial is that way (though 4 out of the last 4 projects of high rise office buildings have gone to multiple general contractor bid. We don't get any questions. Contractors, some of whom the office has never worked with in the past don't seem to have trouble finding manufacturers. I look on it only as an additional burden to maintain in the master with no benefit gained from doing that. William Tommy Mejia (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, August 11, 2003 - 11:42 am:    Unless it is an unusual product, I would wonder about a General Contractor who couldn't find a manufacturer or product with today's technology. If during the bidding process you are made aware that a rep's name or number has changed, do you issue an addenda? Do you verify names and numbers at each submittal? If the project goes 2 or more years from start to bid, what are the chances the name, phone number, or area code remain the same. Like William, we list co. name and product only except like John, we list an address and phone number for very unusual products. The only calls we get is when the company or product no longer exist. Anonymous   Posted on Monday, August 18, 2003 - 09:02 am:    No need to list reps name but company should be listed with current phone number. The best thing would be if the architect would just hold the spec. If the rep has helped with budgets, details, specs etc they should get the job. They should have budgeted the project ahead of time to make sure they are not gouging. Rep William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: Wpegues Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 10:56 am:    And putting phone numbers in the spec - just what does this do for those that practice in multiple areas. Many manufacturer's have different regional numbers. There is just about zero requests from contractors that can't fid a manufacturer if you list product name and manufacturer name correctly. There is just no need for it. "If the rep has helped...he should get the job"..!? What obligation is that on the Architect? I don't believe that the rep should be misled that his manufacturer will be the only one listed - I freely tell those that provide technical assistance that they are multiply listed with a Contractor's option to choose one of those listed. I call upon those I list from time to time for advice, it does not obligate me. I have rarely had a rep indicate that they felt otherwise. I actually have had a few that pressed the issue and felt the were 'owed' a single source listing. And those have been removed from my master and never called upon again. I believe a specifier/architect should treat fairly with those they work with, if someone providing assistance is not aware up front that they will be listed with other manufacturers I think they should be told. I have never had a problem when this is done. "The best thing would be if the architect would just hold the spec." Apparently we don't live on the same planet. Sorry if that seems harsh, but the Architect can only represent to the Owner his recommendations for products based on his professional experience. The Contractor is always free in any contract to propose something else to the Owner. Even if the Architect totally rejects the proposal, the Owner is still free to consider it or negotiate other criteria. Its a risk when the Owner deviates from the advice of his Architect, and its a risk if the Architect can present no good reasons to support his professional opinion other than to 'hold to the spec'. Sure there are products that I single source because they are the ones I want or know they will achieve the design with the quality I know the Owner wishes to uphold. And I will uphold that to the Owner. If his desire to deviate from that advice enters the area where I cannot support his desires due to professional experience of known problems or liability issues, then I tell the Owner. But to sit down at a construction meeting and tell the Owner and Contractor that I am holding to the spec because I owed it to the manufacturer who provided me with so much help is to invite...well, I don't know since I have never done that or even heard of it being done. I suppose at the least I would be laughed out of the room and not likely to work for that client again. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: Bunzick Post Number: 124 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 21, 2003 - 04:24 pm:    Perhaps anonymous is referring the holding the spec to the level of quality of the specified product/system during the submittal process. There are often complaints voiced about this by some reps. However, I would posit that most architectural firms, most of which do a good job, do not accept products inferior to those spec'd (notwithstanding the owner's meddling noted by William). Now, my challenge to reps and manufacturers: help architects hold specs by helping your industry to develop reasonable product standards. Unfortunately, the "consensus" process used to develop standards often means that there is a rush to the bottom so that the poorest quality producer is still in the game. At least give us quality levels or grades so that we can specify to the appropriate level. Then we can more easily "hold the spec." And thanks to those industries that do an excellent job of developing useful standards.