| Author |
Message |
j smith
Member
Username: Specbuster
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 09:06 am: |    |
I have an extensive backround in solving water intrusion problems. If you have any questions please post and I will respond. |
Richard Hird (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 09:58 am: | |
You post is timely. I am an independent Spec Consultant. With concern for the high water table, I proposed to my client Architect a mud slab "Bituthene" system to encapsulate a basement foundation. The Construction Manager had already commmitted to putting in a subdrainage system with a sump pump. Since money has been no object on this project I thought encapsulation was a good backup system.
The footings are already being constructed so I have to use an in joint liquid membrane between the wall and footing per the Grace detail for a mud slab. Now the structural engineer is objecting to the in joint material. As a structural engineer myself I disagree with him.
The Architect/CM (not sure which) wants to compromise and use Xpex in lieu of the liquid membrane. I have had poor success with Xpex in another applications, and can not understand how this could work.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. Remember $$ for now seems to be of little concern to anyone.
If you can not understand this, E-mail me and I will call you and we can talk. |
j smith
Advanced Member
Username: Specbuster
Post Number: 6
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 10:46 am: | |
Xypex would not be my first choice. My suggestion would be a system offered by CETCO.This product is top choice for mud slab applications.They have a 10 year warranty available when installed with one of CETCO,s approved applicators. The system incorporates the Ultraseal waterproofing membrane and RX-101 waterstop for the poured walls to footer.
Hope this helps....
http://www.cetco.com/Groups/bmg/Tech%20Data/Volclay%20ULTRASEAL%20Techdata%20Mar-03.pdf
http://www.cetco.com/groups/bmg/Tech%20Data/Waterstop-RX%20TechData%20NSF%20Sept01.pdf |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 30, 2003 - 12:26 pm: | |
Xypex is a crystalline waterproofing product that does, in fact, work pretty well as below grade, negative side waterproofing - I think there are better products of the same type available, Kryton and PermaQuik. In addition to negative side applications, these can be used as admixtures in the concrete as well.
My personal preference for below grade, positive and blind side waterproofing is Liquid Boot (or Perma Quik's equivalent PQ6200). This is a cold liquid applied, elastomeric, self-healing, zero VOC, high build membrane.
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William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: Wpegues
Post Number: 195
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, July 31, 2003 - 11:10 pm: | |
Richard,
With the opportunity to do a positive side solution, I don't see why anyone would want to go with a negative side option. Regardless of how well they do or don't work, they are inherently less effective than a positive side system.
The sandwiched membrane is a good solution, and it could be the sandwiched sheet, or it could be a hot fluid applied sandwich.
The problem is in transition to the vertical. Since the footings are in, it would seem that the excavation is lay-back rather than sheeting and shoring?
If it is layback, you can continue the vertical with the hot fluid.
I don't know what they are doing in terms of waterproofing warranty these days for the sheet bituminous membranes, but if you were to do a total hot fluid applied, you can get a 5 or 10 year warranty, sometimes even a 15 year warranty.
Waterproofing warranties are not something that many people have much concern with, but they are commonly available.
Companies like Henry and Hyrdotech have good details in their catalogs - and both should have technical people willing to come and go over details with you.
William |
j smith
Senior Member
Username: Specbuster
Post Number: 9
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 08:26 am: | |
Hot applied membrane applications have there problems with blistering when applied on mub slab applications.Keep in mind that the substrate condition needs to be absolutly dry.
These type membranes are heated to 180 degrees. Hot Stuff !!!They are very difficult to apply in a vertical application.
These type of materials are VERY soft when cured and require hard protection courses. If you are looking for the self sealing attribute,the membrane I recommended has that.
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William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: Wpegues
Post Number: 196
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 01, 2003 - 12:04 pm: | |
Yes, the condition needs to be dry, that's acknowledged. Manufacturer's recommend 28 days for structural concrete. Its acknowledged that mud slab conditions may be more difficult if there is a head of water. I believe though that it is a valid option to give the contractor. The "bituthene" type membranes need a somewhat smoother surface than the hot fluid applied, and sometimes mud slab quality of the surface leaves something to be desired. We have used the hot fluid as well as the "bituthene" type membranes in both applications with no trouble.
Yes, the hot is hot - certified appliators don't seem to have a problem with vertical applications, its recommended for that. The majority of our practice is in the DC area, and for many years here local installers simply would not install it vertically - until they actually went through the process with the manufacturer and paid attention. There were a couple very large projects that had it required vertically the past couple years which required their education. Now the installers in the area have no problem with it and actually recommend its use (even though they are certified installers for other membranes including the 'bituthene' types as well. The membrane actually goes on rather easily - its the heat that makes it uncomfortable - and that's not a problem of the membrane. Its just as hot for horizontal applications and there you stand over top of it with the heat coming up.
I am not sure what you mean by 'hard protection' courses. The hot fluid applied after it is cured is not all that much softer than the peel and stick types. I would not install either one without a protection mat, the mats are relatively thin.
I used both types since the mid 70's, and the hot fluid both vertically and horizontally since the foundations and plaza were put in for the National Geographic Society Headquarters in the early 1980s with no problems with them. NGS included structural walls over a plaza slab where the membrane went under the structural wall.
My real personal preference for underslab waterproofing is Grace's Preprufe system. I don't recommend that here due to the problems the already installed foundations. Not knowing all the problems working with some pre-existing condtion, I don't know that it would work.
However, if Richard wanted to speak to single source, Grace manufactures both Bituthene and Preprufe. They could certainly provide a good coordinated recommendation.
William |
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