Archiving - Paper or Plastic?

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Author Message Randall L. Cox Senior Member Username: randy_cox Post Number: 14 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 10:15 am:    In a few of threads there are references to archiving electronic copies of documents. We keep paper copies for permanent records, and make electronic archives for convenient reference. What do others do? Does anyone keep electronic only copies? Is that a safe enough solution (given that you may not be able to access the data in ten or fifteen years)? Richard Howard, AIA CSI CCS Senior Member Username: rick_howard Post Number: 42 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:16 am:    We burn all of our electronic project files (drawings, specs, correspondence, email, etc.) to CDs. On some of our projects, there are no paper copies of contract documents - even permit sets are sent electronically to the building department. Our "experts" claim that CDs will last about 100 years if stored properly. For a large firm (100+), it is too costly to keep paper copies on file. Julie Root Senior Member Username: julie_root Post Number: 7 Registered: 02-2004 Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 11:29 am:    Our firm converts everything at the end of the job to electronic copies (pdfs)and stores them on CDs. As we are getting more savy we have less and less paper in our files. I understand from our IT folks that pdf software is unlikely to change drastically in 10 years so it keeps us in the range of taxes and law suits. Richard Baxter, AIA, CSI Senior Member Username: rbaxter Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 01:27 pm:    My architectural firm also keeps both a hard copy of original signed contract documents and an electronic file of them for convenience. We actually store all paper documents (except, sometimes, the schematic and design development drawings). After ten years or so, we throw away all but the original contract documents. Clearly there would be benefits to eliminating the hassle of storing hard copies of documents, but I wonder if it would become a major problem if a lawsuit were to occur. I have no experience with lawsuits, but will the courts accept electronic documents - considering that they can be stealthily modified so easily before being presented as evidence? I have always heard that an Architect should keep hard copies of everything, including even written records of phone conversations, for at least ten years. Marc C Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 71 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, January 28, 2005 - 01:42 pm:    Vellum works well. I like sheep rather than calf although goat is OK. The vellum being unsplit does have a grain pattern unless I scrape it. Parchment has no grain as it is from the flesh split of a sheepskin. Some of our drawings are hundreds of years old! CD's bah humbug! Vermin and excess moisture do have to be watched for, however. I use “taurokolla” or animal glue to size the vellum so that the ink does not soak in too far. As “ichtyokolla” (fish glue) is often used in the production of the ink I usually have a supply around. I use “India ink” made of ivory black and animal or fish glue. I know Ivory is banned and I will use lampblack in a pinch, but I have my sources. Not being wasteful I’ll scrape old vellums or rub them with pumice powder to “erase” the old images. I don’t like using palimpsests for record drawings as the old images are often still ghosts on the page. I like to work on large sheets and sew them together as a “Codex Gigas” which are made from the single hides. The increased use of half size sets “folios” for everything is fine but the print is so small that I have to use glasses. and the writers cramp is terrible! I say dump the computers and go back to burnt sitcks and animal skins! These codices of drawings work well and last a ling time and the owner’s just love to see them. The cost to the firm of all the young animals is large but lamb stew is always appreciated during crunch time. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 341 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 11:36 pm:    Up to the time the project is completed and it is determined that all issues are resolved, everything is saved. About 6 months after the last time we have heard anything, we archive. For the project manual that means that all supporting information and copies are tossed, the originals (paper) are retained. I am very strict about the originals, they are kept in specially purchased boxes from the day they are created, sent to the printer that way and returned. They are never held anywhere, we will run a duplicate original for a printer to hold on file, never our true originals. The paper we use is paper, but I have originals from 1983 that are still very good. We keep and control the originals of all consultants sections, they are not returned to them. We also kept the final disks (back before file servers) and some of those deteriorated over time. As we updated comptuer systems, we sometimes attempted to update the electronic archives. But there was never any real need to recover the electronic files since the paper files were so good. When we first started with a file server, we started keeping our old project manuals there. They never took up much space, and that kept them secure given our backup standards. As word processor versions evolved, we never bothered to go back and update the original files. We do not archive to pdf. With translators available at reasonable cost we can typically go back 3 or more versions of the software and import/convert it with no loss. Actually, i have successfully translated sections dating from the early 1990s was done with a word processor application that has been unavailable since about 1997. Currently we have some owner's who want us to provide them with electronic files of the project manual and drawings at the completion of the project. Those I turn into PDF files, archive out to CDs and are sent to the Owner. Those that are convereted this way, I also push onto the server so that we have both versions electronically - why waste the effort just in case. William J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 38 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 12:12 pm:    Archiving is a a very interesting subject. My sister-in-law is working on a PhD in library science on the subject, and we have had several interesting discussions. I would suggest that one needs to consider the length of time archives are likely to be accessed for whatever reason. There are usually 2 primary reasons: litigation and repeat client work. Ten years is the norm for legal liability issues, but it always impresses a client that you are able to provide documentation for that building you did for them 25 years ago. Other reasons may include documentation for historical projects or persons. Julia Morgan burned all of her papers toward the end of her career so historians don't have many of the "primary written sources" they would prefer to work with as they study her buildings and career (on the other hand, maybe buildings should be the only artifacts architects leave behind). My first specs were written on a Wang word processor in the late 1970s. This beast used 8-inch floppy disks. Ten years later I was not sure there were any 8-inch floppy drives left, much less versions of the software. Most are aware that floppies are not really archival material (5 to 10 year life--that smell you get when you open the storage box is the polyester media degrading); CDs are much better although there have been some problems reported with these as well. It is the software and file format that are the real problems. It helps a lot to have IT people who understand the need for a stabile archive. In discussing archival mass media, I am fond of pointing out to people that a copy of the Guttenberg Bible can still be read (if you know the German used) while electronically archived material stored 10 years ago may not be readable because of either hardware or software issues or both. If you are serious about maintaining a historical record (and there are some firms who should be), try to find a professional archivist familiar with electronic media who can provide assistance. gerard sanchis (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 02:28 pm:    Marc is way ahead of us. Lately we've used the pith of the stem of the papyrus plant (it grows abundantly in California) pounded and dried until it makes a suitable writing surface. We've used marble tablets in the past, but it's too time consuming and our engravers complain of carpal tunnel syndrome. Robert E. Woodburn Intermediate Member Username: bwoodburn Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 05:15 pm:    For longevity, it's hard to beat stone slabs, copper scrolls or clay tablets. Clay has the advantage of being dirt cheap, and is quite plastic, for countless revisions before saving to the kiln... David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 26 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 06:31 pm:    We've had really good success with our cave paintings. The relatively constant temperature unsures the inks won't dry-rot, and they hold up very well to centuries of humidity. And there's no worry of UV degredation, either. Though PETA has done much to curtail our stock-piling of ox blood, so we may be looking for a good tar pit sometime in the near future. Richard Baxter, AIA, CSI Senior Member Username: rbaxter Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2004 Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 02:27 pm:    I advise against cave paintings. Contractors have a hard time getting them to work in their mimeograph machines. Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 96 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 02:37 pm:    I use my mind. It's extremely portable, I can easily make changes, and, although document retrieval can be slow at times (don't even try during happy hour), I can swiftly organize the information. And, if the contractor can't read my mind, that's his problem.