| Author |
Message |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 09:37 am: |    |
Perhaps others out there have the same curiosity about how their salaries compare with other specifiers. So I thought I'd post an anonymous message and ask if others would be willing to share, anonymously, their salaries, general level of experience, and region. Probably, many of us think we're underpaid--are we? Or is it just this dang industry?
Me: 25 years experience, New England, $72,000 (at a firm) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 09:43 am: | |
Texas, 17 years experience, $70,000 (at a firm) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 09:44 am: | |
26 years experience*, New York, $93,000 (at a firm)
* 14 years doing construction contract administration; 12 years writing specifications |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 09:52 am: | |
31 years experience*, New York City, $102,000 (at a firm)
* the last 18 years devoted to writing specifications |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 09:54 am: | |
It sure sounds like I AM underpaid ...
20 plus years experience, Ohio, $54,000 (at a firm) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 09:59 am: | |
28 years experience, Washington, DC, $90,000 (at a firm).
* all as a specifier |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 09:55 am: | |
Midwest (medium -small market), 5 years as specifier, 7 years construction PM and arch Contract Admin 53,000 (firm) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 10:27 am: | |
5 years specifying; 5 years contract adminstration; 2 years field experience = $29,5
 |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 10:33 am: | |
10 years experience, Salt Lake City, $42,000 (at a firm).
5 years as intern architect, 5 writing specs. 10 years living paycheck to paycheck. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 11:21 am: | |
18 years experience, Seattle, 7 yrs mostly specs; 70K with a firm. As an independent Marketing = $ so it varies |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 11:35 am: | |
20+ years: PA, PM, Owner Rep, CA, and Specs (last 7 years).
Phoenix, $71,000 with a firm |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 12:07 pm: | |
25 years total architectural experience; Texas; $80,000 (at a firm).
first 10 years - PA, PM, CA, some specs; 12 years alternating specs and CA, and some QA/QC; past 3 years exclusively specs with QA/QC. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 12:42 pm: | |
30 years total experience; midwest; $78,000 salary plus good bonus
first 12 years as architect remainder as specifier all with firms (some not so firm) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 12:58 pm: | |
12 years total experience; San Francisco; $54,500 salary plus good bonuses (at a firm)
First 9 years as architect; 3 years as specifier. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 02:30 pm: | |
28 year total experience; Seattle. $72,000 base salary; $90,000 total.
all as a specifier |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 03:06 pm: | |
I feel like I am playing gin; of course I lost!
|
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 07:28 pm: | |
18 years total experience; 6 years as an architect 12 years as a specifier; Northwest; $64,000. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 08:09 am: | |
25 years total experience; Virginia
as a draftsman, CA, code inspector and specifier (20 years)
Last salaried position $40,000.
I'm living in the wrong neck of the woods! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 09:51 am: | |
20 years total experience; 10 years architect, 10 years specifier; Midwest; $65K plus bonuses (at a firm). |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 10:47 am: | |
35 total years experience, last 25 strictly specs: $78K at a firm in Texas |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:14 am: | |
25 years total experience in design and construction working for architects, contractors and both public and private owners. FT cost estimator or specifier also doing QA, CA, library, technical writing, editing & proofreading. CCS & CCCA - not an architect. State of Ohio. Adds up to $47K! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:57 am: | |
Noteworthy, thus far (for 20 respondents):
Average years experience: 21.85 yrs.
Average Salary: $67,150.00
Average salary per year of experience: $3,073.23
(what can I say - its Friday, and I like spread sheets!) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:59 am: | |
30 years as an architect, but first job in an architect's office was during school in the mid '60s; 11 years FT specifying. licensed architect, CCS; Texas; $85K. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:04 pm: | |
Are the independants afraid to post? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:08 pm: | |
They're either:
1. Keeping the good info to themselves; or,
2. Rethinking why they left the firm. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:12 pm: | |
Ah yes, spreadsheets! But what is the mode? It would be interesting to see it broken down by region as well. The independents, I believe vary too much from year to year or don't feel like sharing, or are all independently wealthy and do specs for the shear unadulterated joy of it!
When we hit 30 or 40 I'll get out my stats book and have some fun! Pearsons r, K or maybe even a 5 way anova! ;) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:16 pm: | |
That does it...where's my SCIP application! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:20 pm: | |
The last year I worked as an independant specifier I made only $18Kfor the whole year! That was about 10 years ago! Obviously the economy was in the tank; I was not charging enough; and I was not marketing enough. Needless to say I was thrilled to get a job with a firm. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:28 pm: | |
OK, here is the first independent
More than 30 years experience, registered architect, independent for more than 10 years, Eastern US.
$130,000 (average >50 hours per week) |
Doug Brinley AIA CSI CDT
Senior Member
Username: dbrinley
Post Number: 29
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:42 pm: | |
Independents - please indicate gross or net. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:51 pm: | |
Good point - independent versus firm income is very much affected by those pesky expenses of being in business, such as insurance, supplies, self-employment tax, office, etc. |
Ron Beard CCS
Senior Member
Username: rm_beard_ccs
Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 01:10 pm: | |
With 29 years as an independent, I don't have any trouble getting work so, thanks to e-mail and FedEx, I spend May thru October in Glacier National Park in Montana. I try to hike at least one day a week sometimes two.
How does one put a dollar value on that?
Ron |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 01:30 pm: | |
I was an independent for 10 years (I've been with a firm now for 6 years); in the Northwest. My income ranged from $45K (the first year, which was the same as the salary I gave up at the time) to $130K (the last year). I worked out of my house, and had a very clever accountant, so my "net" income was always in the "less than $30K" category. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 01:59 pm: | |
I will repost since I forgot to include bonuses...
28* years experience, Washington DC, $98,000** (at a firm)
* all as a specifier
** includes bonuses included in this past year.
Not a registered architect |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 07:18 pm: | |
Consultants earn more, but there is a big difference in consulting and employeeing. For one thing, no paycheck on Friday. Note the comments above about living from paycheck to paycheck. If you had to do that as a consultant, you would starve or declare bankruptcy, whichever came first. You have to plan, have 6 months to a year's worth of resources to make it in business for yourself. You also have to figure out a way to keep your overhead low. You have to run your own errands, package your own submittals, do your own billing etc. My indirect overhead time, not including tax free items such as space, utilities, etc. runs to about 25-35 percent of my time. So if you take 2500 hours, divide that into $150,000. then take 75 percent of that, you will see about what a consultant, rather successful one at that, actually makes per hour.
On the other hand, the benefits include: you can do the work on your own schedule (within the client's deadllines) and you generally can do it the way you want. In my case, I work alone, so if you need people around, you would be pretty lonely, but I don't. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:10 am: | |
25 years total experience in design and construction working for architects, contractors and both public and private owners. FT cost estimator or specifier also doing QA, CA, library, technical writing, editing & proofreading. CCS & CCCA - not an architect. State of Ohio. Adds up to $47K! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 06:57 pm: | |
Independent: $150,000. net, West Coast, (it costs a lot to live here) 20 years in business. Average 50 hours a week plus 10 or so for CSI. Some weeks, 70 or 80 hours, no overtime, no bonuses (boni?) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 11:56 am: | |
Registered architect, CCS, 19 years total experience; 8 years full time spec writing for large firms; Currently in large NW firm; $65K plus $3K-$5K annual bonus (depending on profitibility). |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 12:36 pm: | |
The numbers from firm specifiers don't indicate if they are base salary, or include bonus or profit sharing. Obviously, the independents have none of those, though they do have all the time off they want. ;-)
Base 80K, 15-25K bonus, 10% profit sharing, puts the total at about 110K.
And, as I know all firm specifiers will verify, that is also at more than 50 hours/wk. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 03:33 pm: | |
Independent: Gross $230,000. The factors contributing to Net are hard to identify for each independent - some work from home, some don't, some have help, some don't... etc etc. The idea is to show as little NET income as possible. I personally took home $130,000 in 2004. If you have never been self-employed...beware... the self-employment taxes are KILLER.
All the time off that i want??? Hasn't worked that way lately.... |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 326
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, January 08, 2005 - 06:25 pm: | |
Let me post something of interest to all on here. If you go to the Hot Jobs Calculator...
http://salary.hotjobs.com/
You can on that initial page select 'architecture' and put in a zip code or a city location.
The next page that comes up lets you go through the different sub groups in architecture, down at the end is 'Specifications Writer'.
Select that and you can then personalize it and see what your level of experience, size of company, etc. should compare to. Or, just choose the general report and you get an 'average level' of experience, which based on their description seems to be someone with 2 to 4 years of experience.
The report you get will show you salary ranges for the 25th percentile, the median and the 75th percentile.
For instance, the average experience report for New York City is...
$43,208
$51,768
$65,824
and does not include any bonuses, just the base salary.
You could model a specific report for your own experience, size firm, other information that they ask you to fill in, and then get more specific to your own situation based on your area.
Interesting.
William |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2005 - 09:21 am: | |
The response to this thread exceeds my hope when I started it! Thanks for the great responses.
As to bonuses: everywhere I've worked has had a well-intentioned bonus policy, but lass than half the time has one actually been paid. When it has been, it seems to top out at about a weeks pay. Thus, I put no stock in promises of bonuses. (Perhaps this is indicative of the limitations of the talent of many architects when it comes to conducting business. Don't all those states that require architecture firms to be owned by architects realize that they are crippling their potential success?! Ah, but I'm getting off track.)
Though my salary seems to be okay for an area having one of the highest costs-of-living in the nation, I also average only a shade over 40 hours. I, too, like to have a life outside of work, and have actively sought firms that allow that. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, January 09, 2005 - 12:26 pm: | |
A couple of other factors not mentioned, that independents have to deal with and that is not an issue for employee specifiers--getting paid and cash flow.
You can try to have your contracts written so that you get paid as invoiced, and if that actually happens I take my hat off to you--but the reality is that we're at the end of the food chain and usually do not get paid until our architect clients get paid by the owner. And occasionally it has taken a LONG time to get paid.
Cash flow. When you're a consultant, everybody else gets paid first. You'll have to skip a paycheck, or borrow, if the cash isn't there. In a down economy this can be a big issue.
As noted above, consultants can earn more, but that is commensurate with the added risks and unknowns. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 12, 2005 - 03:58 pm: | |
30 years in industry, 15 as registered architect and specifier, large firm eastern US, manage staff of 4, $80K including bonus. Not enough. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 08:41 am: | |
I agree with Anon (the third one up from this one since there's so many) about the bonuses. The firm where I work used to do two a year (a mid-year bonus and an end of year bonus). After being here for a couple of years, the mid-year went by the wayside because of the economy and now we're lucky to get an end of year bonus at all (end of 2004, no bonus).
The firm also went through a period where nobody got raises for a year (seemed to alternate every other year for a while), but it was better than the alternative, which was to get laid off. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:30 am: | |
The Numbers Thus Far:
Based on 23 respondents, specifiers working for firms only (Independents have too many variables and too creative accountants).
Average Years Experience: 22.43 ****
Average Salary: $68,913
Average Salary per Year of Experience: $3,071.71
And for the various regions (by request):
(Number of respondents / average salary)
Northeast: 6 / $80,833
Southwest: 5 / $76,800
Midwest: 5 / $59,400
Northwest: 6 / $64,912
(1 Anon did not list state or region)
**** Where is the next generation of Specifiers? Or is this (22.43 yrs) indicative of what it takes to be one? . . . . |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:48 am: | |
what happened to the south east and middle atlantic area? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 03:05 pm: | |
There were no responses from the southeast.
The 6 'northeast' responses included:
New England
New York
New York City
Washington, D.C.
Virginia
Eastern U.S.
So they were all lumped into the northeast category.
However, taking the first three as true Northeast, and the second three as Mid-Atlantic, would yield the following:
Northeast: 3 / $89,000
Mid-Atlantic: 3 / $72,667
The two Ohio responses were included in the Midwest category. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 04:10 pm: | |
Virginia is not North by any definition!
thanks for getting it straight. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 04:35 pm: | |
Ahhh . . . spoken like a true Rebel! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 05:07 pm: | |
Frankly, my dear gentlemen, y'all know everythin' North of Dallas is Yanke' territory to us true Sutheners! |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 63
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 06:07 pm: | |
Perhaps this firm sence of geography is why the south lost the Civil War (oh! Excuse me! The War of Northern Agression) |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 64
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 06:09 pm: | |
I misspelled aggression or is that agri-gression. |
Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 155
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 07:07 pm: | |
uh, and its "sense"... but the South always was better with words than us northerners. |
David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 408
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:37 pm: | |
Actually a true Southerner would refer to the Civil War as "The War Between the States".
David Axt
Yankee |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 13, 2005 - 11:43 pm: | |
My fine grandmother, a true Virginian Lady, refered to the War between the States as "The Late Unpleasantness".
I do believe her phrase told it all, for the north and the south. |
Brett M. Wilbur
Senior Member
Username: brett
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 09:44 am: | |
Here, here. Right On! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 14, 2005 - 12:17 pm: | |
I've heard that phrase "The Late Unpleasantness" a few times before and just love it -- and there are some project managers around here I could describe in that very manner. |
Dennis Hall (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 11:56 am: | |
Also referred to as the "War of Yankee Agression," but I think we have departed from the subject at hand. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Saturday, January 15, 2005 - 01:57 pm: | |
To put a slight twist on this topic, I would be interested in knowing the following from those that have previously posted:
Size of office (small-medium-large)// region // Base salary // number of project manuals produced year // project construction value (avg) |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 10:37 am: | |
Some of these things are kind of hard to quantify:
Number of Project Manuals: For most projects, we'll do a DD spec, a 50% CD spec, and a Final. Sometimes one at 90% CD also. Not all require the same amount of work. Does that count as 1 or 4? Bid or negotiated work? Bid jobs require more work than negotiated projects where the Owner has a continued on-going relationship with their Contractor.
Size of Office: Based on what - number of employees? What about writing specs for a satellite office? Are those employees counted as well?
Project Construction Value: Tough to calculate an average - we do projects from about $150,000 to $50,000,000. A $3,000,000 hospital addition could have almost as many spec sections as a new $20,000,000 building. So dollar value is not as significant a factor as some others.
But we'll give it the ol' college try:
From February to December, 2003:
90 employees; Texas; $72,000; about 30 PMs that year; $150,000.00 to $34,000,000.00 in size.
2004: About 15 Project Manuals, but spent 6+ months doing CA work. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 12:20 pm: | |
30 plus years as an architect with the last 15 years as a specification writer for a firm.
Salary in 2004 $61,500.00. Looks like I am underpaid.
The last 14 years have been in Salt Lake City, Utah. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 06:09 pm: | |
25 years as an architect and specifier; the last 3 years as an independent consultant. Located on the west coast. Last year about $25,000 net. This year about $75,000 net. Economy, networking, repeat clients all have added to the increase. I love the flexibility of being able to come and go as I please (and need to). Judging from what I've read above, independent is generally a better way to go. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2005 - 08:05 pm: | |
I previously posted but will add the new information.
Office size: about 400 in 4 locations. (mostly west coast)
Project size: $8 million to $550 million
Number of projects 24-30 per year
base salary: $72,000 +
base with bonus: $90,000
years experience doing specs: 26 |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 09:10 am: | |
I also previously posted but will add the following.
Office size: 75 in one location
Project size: $2/3 million to $175 million
Number of projects: 35-40 per year +or-
Base salary: $61,500
Base with bonus: $69,000
Years experience and years doing specs: 30/15 |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 02:53 pm: | |
This was a timely discussion for me. With over 20 years of experience as an architect, I have spent the last five years as a specification writer in two large architectural firms (in the mid-Atlantic). My current base salary of $90,000/year plus sizable bonuses appears to be above average, but the emotional toll of working with architects who do not understand contract documents, and lack the will to learn is leading me, literally, back to the drawing board. I figure that as a project manager, I will have more control over the work, with the capability of making timely decisions. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 03:58 pm: | |
That is an excellent comment. It amazes me at the sometimes total lack of knowledge that some architects have regarding how to put a building together. As a specification writer I have found that the specifications are holding the job together much better than the drawings. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 05:31 pm: | |
Ditto.
I'd rather be a trained and experienced CCS - without an architectural license, rather than a licensed architect who didn't know the first thing about how to write specs or put a building together.
Unfortunately, that little piece of paper works very well at blinding the general public's view of that particular architect's true qualifications. |
Anonymous (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 09:22 pm: | |
Interesting point about average experience and how long it takes for the next generation to replace us old timers.
I have been trying to, and training specifiers for the past 20 years. Very few make the grade and stay with it.
I'd be interested to know what the general opinion is regarding the number of years of experience it takes to become "an experienced specifier." I'd venture a guess of 10 years minimum for an inquisitive person after graduation as an architect or engineer.
As in independent I cannot discuss salaries and income because too many factors affect the end results. It is somewhat easier to quantify salaries for in-house specifiers. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 08:41 am: | |
Independent (for 10 of the past 15 years) in SE Michigan, CCS, CCCA, SCIP with 30+ years total experience; 20+ as specifier; first year gross (1990) was $11,000; 2004 gross was $172,000 (for 25 jobs).
Avg 45 hr/wk (21+ billable, 16 overhead, 7+ for CSI which has been a big commitment but soon to lessen)
Don't forget costs for professional liability and general business insurance, spec masters, reference books, computers, software, and all the other 'perks' the office used to pay for. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 01:31 pm: | |
55 person office/Eastern PA/$70,000 w/o bonus/45 hrs per wk/60 project manuals for 45 perojects/average const. cost $10M. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 03:58 pm: | |
Pennsylvania, large firm (7 offices). $74K, no bonus. RA, CCS, 15 years experience.
I've been told that I'm one of the top earners of the non-principals in the office. I figure I'm willing to do a job that no one else in the office can or wants to do. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 05:39 pm: | |
I, too, make more at $72K than all but one person who is not a principal in my firm of 40 people in 4 offices (plus 4 project offices). Sad that principals aren't making more than they are, no? Seems that that should be one of the perks of ownership and risk-taking. |
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 07:02 pm: | |
28 year total experience; last 15 as full-time spec. writer. Registered architect & CCS. New England.
Spec. writer for two large firms (60 & 80 architects plus staff).
15 projects per year, with assortment of deliverables (PM's at SD, DD, 50% CD's, CD/Bid Docs.) for each one. Projects range from $2/3 mil to $500 mil. Public & private clients.
Base Salary: $80k. Bonus: Sporadic, never more than 2 wks. salary. Profit Sharing: What?
Note: No opportunity for professional advancement as spec. writer in large firms. Just an employee. Spec. writers not seen as having leadership/management qualities. But I always get that paycheck! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2005 - 03:44 pm: | |
Something of note which I find interesting ... for those full time spec writers, you are typically working on 25 - 40 projecs per year. That equates to 50 to 85 hours per spec on average, assuming 40hr weeks. Granted, you have many more responsibilities than just writing the spec, but that becomes the average.
In this architectural office of 10 in Upper Midwest, I am an RA (20+yrs exp), CDT (someday I'll get the CCS, but just haven't been after it since I doubt in this firm it would even matter - only personal satisfaction/PD) and essentially the only spec writer (although others attempt them but they are always asking me how to do them). Primary duties are as an architect, and then specs as needed. Typically, I'd say I write 10 to 12 specs a year, of varying construction and occupancy types, from $.5K to $13M, for public and private clients. Essentially we have, on average, about 15 - 20 hours into each one for Div 1 thru 14, including hardware .. some done in 5 hours, rarely any done in something approaching 80 hours or more. Yep, on many jobs, we are essentially using the same materials/spec sections, etc. from job to job, so we can keep prep time down. I hardly have any time for manufacturer catalog and master spec updating/maintenance. I see specifications helping us out of many situations, but I also see the day where, due to lack of QC, we are gonna get socked.
Just wondering if anyone else has similar experience in smaller offices, as RA and spec writer, etc. with hours prep, maintenance, etc. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 12:05 am: | |
I wonder how the specifiers' salaries at firms compare to the project managers. Given the following stat...
"Average Salary per Year of Experience: $3,071.71"
...I suspect the mid-level/big-city/large-firm PM could just about double that. Maybe 10 years, 60k? 15 years, 90k? Not unreasonable. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 04:05 pm: | |
I've worked in firms that considered spec writers to be "specialists" and as such, they were at a slightly higher pay scale than a project manager (5% to 10% more); I've also worked at firms that because spec writers were "specialists" and not responsible for a whole project, paid them slightly less than a project manager. It must be related to how easily they think a spec writer can be replaced if needed. Its hard to find metrics that can quantify what a good set of specifications can save in time at the construction end of a project -- I've been trying to find a way to track that, but I only have responsibility for the quality of the specs, not the entire package of documents. (and the quality of the contractor influences those costs as well).
anyone here successful in "objectively" demonstrating their value in dollars to a firm? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2005 - 04:40 pm: | |
73000 plus bonus, good year bonus =7000, spec writing is a large part of the job,but also includes ,, QA reviews of CDs,for 55 person firm in NC ...20 years exp as arch...CA..then specs |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 09:51 am: | |
Thought I'd share this, just for comparision's sake:
We just received a copy of an Operating Statistics Survey performed by Deltek (a design firm cost accounting software mfr.) for the 2003 fiscal year.
219 firms surveyed nationwide:
Architectural
Architectural and Design
Consulting
Engineering
Eng. & Arch Design
Environmental or Geotech
Interior Design
and reported the following average salaries:
Position: - - - - - - - - - - - -Hourly: -Annual:
Draftsperson / Jr. Technicians - $19.74 - $41,059
Architect / Engineer - - - - - - $28.11 - $58,469
Project Managers - - - - - - - - $32.96 - $68,557
Marketing Managers - - - - - - - $28.97 - $60,258
Principals Job Cost Rate - - - - $62.32 - $129,626
There was no indication in the survey regarding size of firm or number of employees, or geographic location. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 10:00 am: | |
The Numbers Thus Far - UPDATED:
Based on 29 respondents, specifiers working for firms only (Independents have too many variables and too creative accountants).
Average Years Experience: 22.55 ****
Average Salary: $70,620.69
Average Salary per Year of Experience: $3,131.50
And for the various regions:
(Number of respondents / average salary)
Northeast: 6 / $81,833
Mid-"We Ain't-Yankees"-Atlantic: 5 / $77,600
Southwest: 5 / $76,800
Midwest: 5 / $59,400
Northwest: 7 / $65,500
(1 Anon did not list state or region)
**** Again - Where is the next generation of Specifiers? Or is this (22.55 yrs) indicative of what it takes to be one? . . . . |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 335
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:09 pm: | |
This was posted above and never responded to...
>>>
I'd be interested to know what the general opinion is regarding the number of years of experience it takes to become "an experienced specifier." I'd venture a guess of 10 years minimum for an inquisitive person after graduation as an architect or engineer.
<<<
It alos relates to the message posted above about where is the next generation of specifiers or does it take 22 years to become one.
I think this varies based on the actual experience that the individual encounters. I personally know some that have progressed very quickly, and some that after 15 years there experiences did not translate into 'experience'.
When I graduated, I was 1 year with 2 different firms and in the 2nd year went to a 3rd. The experience I got with the first 2 was very minimal. The experience with the 3rd was significant. I stayed with them for 6 years for a total of 7 years after graduating.
When I left there, I went to an architectural office as their specifier setting up an internal master system and writing all their projects - and 21+ years I am still with them. What I had done in those previous 6 years, I was ready for that. And though I am deligent, I have to credit it to the exposure and opportunities that my previous position working under their head specifier offered me.
And even there, for the first 2 years at that location, I was working on a special joint venture project which had limited opportunities.
At this same firm, we also took on a few years after I joined a fellow with no specifications experience part time while he was still in graduate school. He progressed even faster so that he was "experienced" with only 5 years after graduation (1 year of that part time). He ultimately took over the senior position at that location not much more experience than that, and moved to another head specifications position later as well.
He and I have chatted about this kind of 'experience' issue in the past, and we both credit it to the actual experience and opportunity that someone gets and their taking advantage of it. Its not just a '10 year' thing. It can be much less - or it might be a lot longer.
William |
Marc C Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 68
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 12:24 pm: | |
My previous employer had blown up and I was temping for a large firm. They asked if I wanted to draw on a large job. I had just received my CCS and felt that I needed and wanted some more spec writing experience. I said “No but I’ll write the spec” They agreed and at the end of the spec for a 26 million dollar, highly specialized, federal air traffic control building I sure felt experienced!
I think the answer has two parts:
Experienced compared to the architects I write for?
Answer: 1 or 2 years full time spec writing and your WAY ahead of them. (In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king!)
Compared to this discussion board or a SCIP meeting
Answer: I feel competent with 6 years full time spec writing on top of 12 additional years as an architect. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 02:33 pm: | |
I think one is "experienced" when they stop hyperventilating at the next new thing that a project team throws at them.
Specifiers range in experience from one-each of 50 different building types to 50-each of one building type. I've worked on everything from a residential garage remodel (art studio on the roof) to a $500 million laboratory/vivarium/clinic/ addition to a hospital. I have a colleague who has done schools for 20 years -- but probably 200 schools. We are each "experienced" but I wouldn't begin to know the subtleties of school work, and he would probably get lost in the vivarium.
I also started specs right out of school and I think when you start that young, you necessarily have a very steep learning curve. (my dog had a better drafting hand than I did). |
Lynn Javoroski
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 181
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 03:47 pm: | |
Seems to me "anonymous" has a good point. Right out of school, I wasn't experienced at anything, although I was a darn good drafter, hand and CADD. But I gravitated toward spec writing over the course of about 10 years, finally realizing that my life experiences were especially suited for writing. During those 10 years and for the next 10, I developed the relationships and additional information, skills, and experience that I have today.
Each new project manual gets better as I draw on additional experience. Eventually, I'll be great! And probably dead at the same time.
Like most of us, experience is best gained in the trenches. The challenge, I think, is interesting younger folks in spec writing, to get them to see the value of a well-written specification/project manual. And that probably comes only after seeing the damage that poorly written ones can do!
A couple of younger architects in my office have lately come to me and basically said that they are in awe of what I do - they could not do it, nor do they want to. It's the few who want to write who we can develop into spec writers, not the ones who want to draw. We just have to find those folks. And they are out there. How did you get started? The same thing will happen again. |
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 337
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 04:53 pm: | |
I think my experience, and that of my friend who was started part time while in graduate school, was not typically. I was doing specifications right out of school - actually for the last 3 months before graduation was doing part time spec writing.
Neither of us was was involved in any other type of activity (other than coordinating with CA efforts) during our entire careers.
Writing specifications, the associated research, and coordination with CA was all I did for the first 6 years.
William |
Brett M. Wilbur
Senior Member
Username: brett
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 05:29 pm: | |
Perhaps this is a good time to chime in as a new recruit. “Experience” is a loaded word. There is experience gained as an Architect, and experience gained as a specification writer. These are two distinct types of experience. And then these are to be differentiated from drafting experience. There are a lot of draftspeople, but few Architects; and just as there are few architects, there are fewer spec writers.
I have been a registered Architect in several states since 1993. My first couple of years after school I spent drafting, and the two years following I worked out in the field trailer doing CA on the renovation of the middle three floors of a concrete and steel university building in downtown San Francisco. I passed the licensing exam a year or so later. I am thankful for that type of “apprenticeship”. I was young, and eager, but it ground (sp. grinded?) me up.
There is a powerful difference between what I learned in school and what I learned in real life in the darkness of that cold, wet building. As a matter of fact I was quite disillusioned by the whole process. When did I get to win my awards, and become rich and famous, get the girls and fly around in my jet designing fabulous, exotic, edgy masterpieces and revolutionizing architecture and transforming society? Still waiting…still wanting to be discovered. Anyway, I’m being facetious, but I think all kids fresh out of school should work out in the field for a couple years, then they would know what it is they were drawing (or spec'ing), that those lines actually mean something. And besides, I certainly couldn’t use any of the cardboard furniture I learned how to make in school.
As far as specification writing, I have been writing specs for my own projects on and off as a PM since I got licensed. It wasn’t until recently, less than a year ago, that I took on a full time spec writing position. And we just call them coordinators here, as most of the work is editing office master specs. I’m signed up for the CDT test in April, so I’ll be legit soon. That’s my next life goal, as I have fallen short on so many other occasions. It is good to have direction.
Ask me why I decided to go in this direction away from stardom as a designer or prestige as a PM. I don’t know, maybe for the challenge of it. PM’s are a dime a dozen from what I can tell. Spec writing is a niche job; it has its own reward. Those who don’t do it, don’t know. But I acquiesce to those with more knowledge than I. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2005 - 06:10 pm: | |
I started on the construction side - as a cost estimator (Consumer of the Bidding Documents). My construction experience greatly aids my spec writing. |
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan
Post Number: 33
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 08:01 pm: | |
"Experience" is a very "loaded" concept. I find myself agreeing with Anonymous' comment about being experienced when you "stop hyperventilating..."
I would like to think that the experience "drawing" buildings and doing some CA work is essential to being successful at spec writing, but I am less and less sure of this. I do believe there are several attitudes that have to be cultivated. One of the most important ones is "curiousity" combined with the skills to find out what you need to know to satisfy "curiosity" about something. How can you successfully develop a specification about something you haven't really dealt with before without being curious about it? The contribution of CSI is the organizational formats that overlay the data that a spec writer gathers transforming the data into coherent, useful information. A spec writer who knows the 3-part format already has the research program and goals laid out. Good writing and editing skills are helpful as well. All of this goes hand in hand with the ability to read and think critically. If you had some really good writing instructors in college and are able to transfer the skills you have learned from 19th C British Lit to the material in Section 07 90 00, you may be ahead of some people who have more technical knowledge than you have.
OK, ideally, a good spec writer has it all, but most of us have strengths and "lesser strengths" (or weaknesses) we bring to the task. I am to the point of thinking that my next assistant should have good critical thinking skills, be able to organize data within established formats, have good research skills, be able to write a coherent sentence, and be interesting in building products and systems. Someone who does have knowledge of building products and systems, but who lacks the other aptitudes/qualifications may not be terribly useful either in the short run or in the long run. |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 314
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 09:17 am: | |
I think a spec writer first and formost has to be interested in the most technical aspects of how a building goes together. This includes materials science, building technology, chemistry, construction management, etc. This is not to say that you need to be expert in each of these, but you have to have a passion for them. A very large proportion of the specifiers I know did not take the traditional route to get where they are. My experience is owning and operating a small commercial contracting business for a number of years, heading the construction and maintenance division of a small chain of supermarkets, working for an engineer designing roofing and waterproofing systems, and doing CA for several architecture firms. As to degrees, I have a BA in organizational behavior, with a bunch of engineering credits tossed in. About twenty years ago spec writing got into the mix. Since I started specifying, most of my jobs have included other responsibilities besides spec writing--lots of CA but all sorts of other stuff, too. The mix keeps things interesting. I never draw. I can whip up SK's, but don't do CAD (or pencils). I have a specifier friend with an advanced degree in geology, another in chemistry. That's the way it is in this niche, isn't it? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 11:52 am: | |
John:
I'd say with a BA in organizational behavior, you're more qualified than any of us! |
Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 158
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 26, 2005 - 12:39 pm: | |
Yep, my degree is in history, and for my first job, I actually made a bet with my boss that since I was trained as a researcher and writer -- that at the end of 6 months he wouldn't be able to tell I didn't have an architecture degree. I won the bet.
I think curiosity is right up there -- you need to be able to distinguish between "did this application change" or "did the industry change" when responding to a query. I think humor is absolutely critical. I've relied a lot on a good memory and the facility to connect seemingly unrelated things. (I went into specs because I thought it would teach me to be more organized -- it didn't, and I sort of subverted the process along the way); and I think as important as anything is the idea that you have a pretty great job. When I first started a lot of spec writers seemed to go into it because they didn't get to do what they really wanted to do -- whatever that was -- and saw the job as a "second choice". I don't see my job as a "second choice" -- I see it as pretty close to the best job in the office. (and no, I'm not sure what the best job would be -- probably my job with some tweaks.) |
John A Raeber (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 11:23 pm: | |
I don't know what good it will do anybody but here's my gross and net incomes for the last seven years.
2003 235,000/96,000
2002 230,000/92,000
2001 300,000/150,000
2000 320,000/160,000
1999 335,000/200,000
1998 255,000/200,000
1997 270,000/200,000
I separated from my first wife at the end of 1996 so 1997 through 2000 were years living by myself. I remarried in the middle of 2001 and you can see the impact in 2002 and 2003. Remember I was still getting income from work done in 2000 during 2001.
I also live in the city of San Francisco, one of the most expensive places to live in the world. I have no savings, no retirement, I don't own my own home, and the value of my business is related directly to the amount of work I can put out. I expect this is a reflection of me and not of specifications writing.
I am a twelve step workaholic who now goes to therapy every week to try to help keep my compulsion to work in control. That is also indicated in the 2002 and 2003 income as the weekly therapy started in 2001. I went to workaholic group sessions from 1996 to 2000 but from looking at my income I'm not sure it did any good. The sessions stopped because all of the members were too busy to come to meetings (although it sounds funny it's no joke).
Regarding how much experience a person needs to be a spec writer...I joined HOK's spec department in 1973, immediately after getting my MArch at Washington University. I had never worked in an architect's office before HOK. My first spec was done in four days (a small high school gym remodel) and I was working overtime in the second week. I believe the key was the people around me, Terry Mattison (sp?) and Al Picker, not to mention my mentor Tom Walsh who was still teaching at Wash U but started working part time at HOK. He was always there for me if Terry or Al couldn't answer a question or if I wanted more depth or another point of view. I've never done a drawing, didn't do CA until after five years of writing specs, and have always loved my work as a specifications writer. By the way, Terry started at HOK as an office boy and to my knowledge never did get an architectural degree. Tom Walsh was never a licensed architect.
Mentoring is critical. But specifications is not going to be the first love of everybody. When I find someone who expresses an interest I try to help them the way Tom Walsh helped me. Sometimes it works...sometimes they follow another path. The key is to give them an opportunity to see what it's like, to give them the help so they know they're never alone, and to let them find their own way.
Work is most of my life, even now, it has got to be fun. It is for me.
I believe I have the best job in the world.
Now I've got to get back and finish the winery spec that brought me to 4specs. |
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