| Author |
Message |
Glenda M. Horn, CSI
New member
Username: glenda_horn
Post Number: 1
Registered: 09-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 08:48 am: |    |
My company, who manufactures a unique entrance system, has finally broken out our all-encompassing 3-part spec into individual specs reflecting the different styles of doors.(example: all-glass vs. rail & stile, clad vs. formed) To make a LONG story less tedious to read,I created these by following our competitors' specs.
Unfortunately the latter's are not entirely proper , according to the PRM. (I should mention here also that I have spent much time reading discussions here at 4Specs on this topic,and have attended seminars where I have learned some do's and don'ts, so I have a better than average grip on how "bad" many mfg's guide specs are.
The problem? I just can't spend the $$$$ money right now on having them re-written properly) My task at hand is to have these documents professionally written into a WORD document, complete with proper spacing, tabs, etc. to publish on our website in PDF and interactive formats. I am not a wiz at WORD, so I need outside help. I just remembered this last weekend that at a seminar hosted by McGraw-Hill this fall, Michael Chambers suggested that this process could be acheived by a retired or part-time staff spec transcriber at a design firm. At last, my query: can anyone give me names of people who would be willing to hire themselves out for this job? Or, since this is not a help wanted column, who would I ask, or how would I ask at a design firm for the name of a person would be willing to take on a side job such as this? Thank you up front for any and all advice you can offer. |
Mitch Miller,AIA ,CSI,CCS
Senior Member
Username: m2architek
Post Number: 20
Registered: 02-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 08:57 am: | |
send me more information at mmiller@usaarchitects.com |
John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: john_regener
Post Number: 199
Registered: 04-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:42 am: | |
I am befuddled by manufacuturers who don't have the money to create proper, usable construction specifications. This is particularly true of complex and expen$ive systems. Has there been any thought given to how much it costs the spec writer to rewrite the manufacturer's poorly written spec? Is there any thought about the competitive disadvantage of a poorly-written manufacturer's spec? This is not to mention the cost in terms of time spent by the manufacturer in correcting erroneous bids and installations.
I am disinclined to select and specify products that lack technical support, such as a guide specification that truly guides the specifier and that conforms to established formats and writing conventions. |
Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 69
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 10:48 am: | |
Glenda:
John is absolutely correct. Poorly written manufacturer specifications take just as much work as editing well-written masters. I, too, am selective about the manufacturers I specify, basing my selections on the quality of information provided by the manufacturer.
If Mr. Miller can't help you out, send me an email to ron.geren@gouldevans.com. |
Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI
Senior Member
Username: awhitacre
Post Number: 143
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 01:09 pm: | |
I have NEVER used a manufacturer's spec "right out of the box" and could care less if it is properly formatted, in WORD or anything else. If the information is readable, and somewhat "findable" I will incorporate what small pieces of the information into my own specifications sections. I think this is analagous to using manufacturer's CAD details right off their web site, and that doesn't strike me as very professional, either. |
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza
Post Number: 77
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 03:30 pm: | |
North Carolina General Statutes state that it is a misdemeanor for a design professional to publish a drawing or specification prepared by a vendor for a public project. Interesting!
Few manufacturers' specifications, even ones that are "formatted properly," can pass as professionally prepared contract documents. It takes quite a few years' experience in the industry plus considerable training to be able to write good specifications; very few manufacturers have someone like that on staff.
I tend to agree with Anne - the quality of the information offered is much more important than the format. I do sympathize with John's comment, though. Even though I don't rewrite or reformat manufacturers' specifications, if they take the effort to have quality professional documents produced, I am much more inclined to make use of their literature and therefore their products. |
Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 70
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 03:54 pm: | |
I agree that there's more to it than just being "formatted properly." However, the language used is typically poor.
I, too, never use manufacturer's specs "right out of the box." I usually cut and paste as needed, but I generally dislike having to completely restructure paragraphs to eliminate all the "Contractor shalls" and "such and such product shall" to achieve the generally accepted imperative mood.
Another item that gets to me is the location of requirements in the incorrect part. For example, execution requirements in Part 2 Products. This just adds another layer of unnecessary editing.
Whether it has the proper paragraph numbering, indentation, margins, etc. is irrelevant (We all have our own unique formatting styles), it's the content (language and information) of the manufacturer's specification that's important to me. |
Lynn Javoroski
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 165
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 04:42 pm: | |
I just did one of these today. I actually asked someone else in the office to review and make suggestions because my eyes were crossing with the effort to make some sense out of the manufacturer's specification. Part 1 articles were out of sequence, Part 2 articles (yes, there was more than one) included information about submitting for approval for other manufacturers, including information from Division 1, and information was repeated, almost verbatim, in more than one article or Part.
But at least this was a 3 Part Specification! How often have we all encountered something the manufacturer calls a specification which is simply a list of characteristics? And when asked for a CSI 3 Part specification, they reply with your basic "huh?"
Sometimes, it's enough to make me want to scream. And I usually do, but in quiet, menacing tones that are calculated to send cold shivers up the spine of the manufacturer or the rep - "You want to be included in my specifications? I want a proper 3 Part CSI Format Spec!" |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 103
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Monday, December 13, 2004 - 04:56 pm: | |
After receiving the "huh?", I have occasionally sent a competitor's 3-part specifications to a manufacturer. The tricky part, at least for some products, is finding a competitor's specifications that are good enough to use as an example. |
Helaine K. Robinson CCS
Senior Member
Username: hollyrob
Post Number: 103
Registered: 07-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 10:51 am: | |
Perhaps someone can direct Ms. Horn to ManuSpecs posted online? |
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan
Post Number: 26
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 04:26 pm: | |
What has become clear to me over the years is that manufacturer's attempt to use one document for the specification they provide to suppliers/installers/contractors and the specification they provide to specifiers; hence, the requirements for various stuff "by others." I have to explain to folks in our office that when that appears in the manufacturer's spec (and on the details), it usually must be deleted.
I would like to see manufacturer's be more contientious about the "specification" they distribute to design professionals, but like many of you, I am used to thoroughly massaging these documents before they get used.
One must keep in mind that manufacturer's guide specifications are still part of a marketing effort. One of the goals of that effort is to distinguish that product from others that are offered. To that end, I try to identify the "salient characteristics" critical to my firm's design and delete references to other features that are not important to our design. This can be extremely difficult to do. One of my pet bugaboos is resinous flooring. Establishing design criteria to make a relavent initial selection is very difficult. Not only are the test values all over the place, different ASTM standards are used from one product to another. If one product as a compressive strength of 15,000 psi, is it really that much better than one that has a compressive strength of 8,000 psi when the application is a school restroom?
We had a project where the client's criteria was that it was to be gray and it had to pass health code (food prep area). They could not provide any other objective criteria. They did say that they really liked products produced and installed by a regional manufacturer located more than 1500 miles from the project site. The specification information we got from them, however, was incomplete and filled with errors. We did finally get something gray that passed muster with the local health department, but... |
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza
Post Number: 79
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, December 16, 2004 - 05:33 pm: | |
The most promising development I know of on this front is PRODUCT MASTERSPEC, found on the CDROM of subscribers' updates. Manufacturers can license a Track Changes version of a MASTERSPEC section that includes their products named as basis of design, with additional Editors' Notes to assist in product selection. All of the original MASTERSPEC is still there, so there's no hidden "gotchas". |
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