Building Paper

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Author Message Shelby N. Gordonswyth New member Username: shelbyng Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:09 am:    A post yesterday in the Gypsum Sheathing thread said "California Building Code requires 2 layers of Type D paper over the sheathing." Coincidentally, just yesterday I was trying to verify the existence of "Type D" building paper, and I couldn't. An internet search turned up a mention of it in a manufacturer's plaster spec but little else - and no citations in official standards that I recall. ASTM D226 specifies only two types ("Type I--Commonly called No. 15 asphalt felt" and "Type II--Commonly called No. 30...") No "Type D" is mentioned. UFC 14-1 ("Kraft Waterproof Building Paper") says the papers it covers are all Type I, but doesn't define that type - and doesn't even mention Type II, let alone "No. 15," "No. 30," or any "letter" types. It does, however, classify Type I paper into four "Grades" - A thru D - and five "Styles" - 1a thru 4. (Ironically, even though UBC 14-1 uses the term "Waterproof" in its title, none of its Grades is defined as "waterproof" - only "water resistant," "water-vapor permeable," or of "moderate" or "high" water-vapor resistance.) That UBC standard is based on a 1968 Federal Specification, UU-B-790a, that I cannot find, and whose current validity I cannot verify. Is the UBC's "Type I" the same as ASTM's "Type I"? It doesn't say so. It leaves it undefined. Could there be different "grades" of Type I under ASTM? It doesn't say so. It mentions no grades. Why are the standards for something one would think is so simple - building paper - not more clearly defined, and in a single standard? (Or is this another instance where California has a different standard...?) Ralph Liebing Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 97 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 11:50 am:    May be this is helpful-- Asphalt saturated kraft building paper; Grade D paper typically used is water-resistant, yet highly vapor permeable, and meets Federal Specification UU-B-790a, type 1, grade D, style 2. Guess the Fed Spec has the "rest of the story"! Richard L Matteo Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 12:09 pm:    I'm sorry, it was Grade D and came from the old Federal Spec. "Building Paper: Building paper conforming to Federal Specifications UU-B-790-a, Type I, Grade D (vapor permeable), Style 2." The last time we spec'd it we used the following: "Building Paper: Asphalt saturated felt, ASTM D 226, Type II, No. 30, non-perforated." CBC 2001, Section 1402A.1 and Section 2506A.4, these are California ammendments to the UBC and refer to DSA & OSHPD projects. As for Caifornia having different standards, let's just say we all know that CA wants to be its own country. Shelby N. Gordonswyth Intermediate Member Username: shelbyng Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 01:06 pm:    Thanks to you both. Where might I find this Federal Spec? It has eluded me so far. (And BTW, what are "DSA" & "OSHPD"? Should I know?) Ralph Liebing Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 99 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 01:07 pm:    Speaking of remote [??] references, who can jump on this one? CECRD-C621 Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 49 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 01:10 pm:    Ralph: That's actually CRD-C621, which is an Army Corps of Engineers standard specification for nonshrink grout. John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 171 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 01:13 pm:    The Los(t) Angeles Times today (8/10/04) had an article about students from Minnesota spending their summer studying in California in lieu of a "study abroad" program. Seriously. There is so much diversity in California that you can stand still and the world will eventually pass by you. By the way, in 2001 the California "Gross Domestic Product" ranked 5th --- in the world, ahead of France, China and Italy but just behind the United Kingdom. In 2001, the construction industry in California ranked 1st in the US as a component of the "Gross Domestic Product", at $57.7 trillion or 12% of total US construction. 2nd was Texas at $37.8 trillion. So, California has a few unique building code requirements --- as do Florida and Massachusetts. And California is big enough (think 900 lb gorilla) that it can act like it's its own country. Two layers of Grade D building paper is a very small issue. Collapsed buildings and bridges after an earthquake are big issues. Hmmm. Maybe building paper with lateral bracing qualities should be required in California. Richard L Matteo Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 46 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 01:27 pm:    For the non-californians - DSA is "Division of the State Architect" and OSHPD is the "Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development" If you don't do any work in CA you don't want to know any more than that. Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 109 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 02:08 pm:    here's a variation on this theme: I have a contractor in Dallas who wants to use "wax paper" as an underlayment behind some metal panels. I've only been doing this for 28 years, but I've never heard of a construction grade wax paper, and can't find anyone in the northwest who has. Any help from out here? John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 248 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 02:09 pm:    Having written specs almost exclusively in Massachusetts for years, writing one for California has been an interesting and perhaps even fun challenge. At least I have a few specifier buddies out there who have been willing to try to keep me out of big trouble. Yes, Massachusetts is one of those states (like New York) that has had it's own home grown code. (Currently based on a very-modified 1987 BOCA.) However, we no longer have enough state staff to support our own code writing effort. We've been planning to move over to the IBC for several years, and were one of the first to decide to do that. However, we're still talking--various groups supporting the effort have wanted to rewrite big portions, just like before. At this time though, there is some momentum towards adopting the IBC in unadulterated form. This would make our lives a lot easier, though we would end up sacrificing some of our beloved provisions, like air barriers. Expect to see some "Massachusians" working to have that become an IBC or ASHRAE provision in the future, now that we've figured it out. Richard L Matteo Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 02:22 pm:    I think he is looking for something to keep the metal panels from sticking to the substrate/waterproofing. Try Red Rosin Paper instead. As for wax paper - it belongs in the Kitchen! Although it does have a good use for newly painted surfaces like keeping windows from sticking and books and other objects from sticking to book shelves. Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 110 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 05:30 pm:    Richard: we specified red rosin paper and the contractor doesn't want to use it because he says that it absorbs water. (as an aside, Berridge panels will not warrant their installation over rosin paper). I'm just looking to see if ANYONE has heard of using wax paper in construction, and so far, no one has. Anonymous   Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2004 - 03:18 pm:    Shelby, http://assist.daps.dla.mil/ Here's link (you have to register...and wait for password, but it's free) for a whole host of Mil, Fed and other "gov't" specs, including UU-B-790; most online. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 01:24 pm:    The Rest of the Story (At least part of it, through the link above - Thanks!): UU-B-790a, the Federal Specification on which UBC 14-1 is based, specified four “Types” (I - IV), seven “Grades” (A - G) and 12 “Styles” (1 a & 1b through 11). It was issued as UU-B-790 on July 9, 1964, superseded by Revision A on February 5, 1968, modified by Interim Amendment 1 on September 22, 1976, and cancelled on April 30, 1991 by Notice 1, which directed that future procurement of “Type II, Grade E, Style 8" should be based on “ASTM C 171" (“Sheet Materials for Curing Concrete,” still current), and of “Type III, Grade F, Style 10" on “ASTM D 4433, Type II, Class B” (which has since apparently vanished without a trace; I could not find it through ASTM’s current search system.) Subsequently the 1968 version of UU-B-790a was reinstated by Notice 2 on 24 April 1992 (without any mention of Interim Amendment 1), and is currently available as a pdf version of the typewritten document (including the handwritten note “See ASTM C 171" at Type II on page 14) upon registration and acceptance at the government’s ASSIST-Online website (the above link). So, why is something as [seemingly] simple as building paper so complicated...? Anonymous   Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:47 am:    Unless one is using red rosin paper for primary water(proof) barrier, then it should not have any opportunity to get wet. Red rosin's main use is to prevent bitumen leakage in wood board sheathing when hot-mopping direct to wood decks. This is not done much in commercial construction, as fire-ratings mostly require gypsum sheathing over wood decks before any built-up roofing is applied. David E Lorenzini Senior Member Username: deloren Post Number: 37 Registered: 04-2000 Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 08:19 pm:    ASTM maintains a list of withdrawn standards. It lists the following, in reference to the disappearance of ASTM D4433: "D4433-84(1989) Specification for Flame Resistant Treated Paper and Paperboard (Withdrawn 1996)". This has been an intriging topic. Richard L Matteo Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 08:24 pm:    Anne - Like I said, wax paper belongs in the kitchen! As for red rosin paper - I don't know what Berridge's problem is, but it was recommended to me a few years ago by a Follansbee rep when I was specifying their roof panels over W.R. grace Bituthene waterproofing membrane, to keep the metal panels from sticking to the membrane when the temperatures got hot. This was in Connecticut. It gets a lot warmer in Dallas. I would check with some of the other roof panel manufacturers. Harold S. Woolard Senior Member Username: harold_woolard Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 11, 2004 - 10:12 pm:    Little known facts.... 1 of every 9 people in the United States live in California. Mexico City has the same population as the whole state of Texas. Federal Highway money spent, if Harris County (Houston) was a state it would be number 6 in states where the Federal Highway is spent. W. R. Meadows makes both Red Rosin paper and a Brown Rosin paper, since their biggest selling state of these products is Texas, maybe the client in Dallas is confused with the Brown Resin paper which has a somewhat feel to having a wax coating on it. If the St. Louis Cardinals played .500 ball the rest of the year, they would win 100 games! Curt Norton, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: curtn Post Number: 61 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 12, 2004 - 08:55 am:    Richard, Metal roof panels don't stick to the face of Grace's membrane. If the clip is not tall enough the panel can stick to the bitumen that is exposed at the edge of the sheet. I have trouble believing this is a wide spread problem. I cannot in good conscience specify paper on the roof where I know it will be exposed to moisture. Holding moisture next to a metal panel is a good way to promote corrosion.