ASTM E-2174

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Author Message Ralph Liebing Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 95 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 08:15 am:    Is ASTM E-2174, "Standard Practice for On-Site Inspection of Installed Fire Stops", part of your spec? If so, is this part of Quality Assurance, or some other configuration? Do you require some sort of verfification/ certification in response? Anonymous   Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 10:54 am:    ARCOM's AIA MasterSpec makes it part of field QC, with Owner engaging inspection agency. It that instance, there is no QA nor certs required. If you choose to have GC engage inspecting agency, then there should be language in Part 1 QA article that qualifies inspecting agency and text in Part 1 submittals article requiring certs of some sort. Lynn Javoroski Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 127 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 11:04 am:    We reference UL and NFPA. Under Quality Assurance, we have installers qualifications, single source responsibility, and ask for field samples and tests performed by a qualified testing and inspecting agency (UL, ITS are listed). We also call for the Owner to hire a qualified independent testing agency to inspect and prepare reports (under Field Quality Control). And we specify Manufacturer's field services which include a report of acceptance of the completed system and compliance with UL designs. But we don't cite ASTM E2174 (I had to look). If you do, I'd put it under References first and then specify compliance with it under Quality Control. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 11:07 am:    We cite ASTM E 2174 as part of our field quality control inspection requirements. It is also cited in Masterspec, with an accompanying editor's note that indicates that E 2174 requires a third party inspector in lieu of a manufacturer technical representative. The standard requires reporting on specified forms to the authorities having jurisdiction and to the inspector's hiring authority, ie., the owner or the owner's agent. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 322 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 01:57 pm:    Does anybody have a copy of this ASTM? It does not seem to be in my copy of the 2003 ASTM Building Codes Standards. Lynn Javoroski Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 131 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 02:10 pm:    ASTM E2174-01 "Standard Practice for On-Site Inspection of Installed Fire Stops", is now published and listed on the ASTM Website. Here's the link: http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/DATABASE.CART/REDLINE_PAGES/E2174.htm?E+mystore. Evidently, it's newer. Curt Norton, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: curtn Post Number: 58 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 02:57 pm:    It is in the 2004 ASTM Standards in Building Codes. We do have it. Bill McHugh (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 04:36 pm:    Dear 4 Specs ASTM E 2174 Discussion Group, I was alerted by the discussion going on here by a specifier friend. Here’s some more for you to consider as you make choices for your Firestopping Specifications. The ASTM E 2174 "Standard for On-Site Inspection of Installed Fire Stops" was founded from the "Quality Process Approach". It's designed to be part of the total quality protocol needed for zero tolerance Firestop Systems Installation. Firestop Manufacturers test their products, manufactured to strict tolerances, and publish systems suitable for use as Firestops in the UL, Omega Point, WHI and FM Books. There have been several articles on “Construction Process Quality”, in ENR, at the CSI Show in April (Patrick McLeamy’s keynote presentation in Chicago) and other publications. To provide a construction process installation protocol program, the Firestop Contractors International Association (FCIA) decided to create a new standard for the quality in the construction subcontracting industry...FM 4991 and ASTM E 2174. FM 4991, also in MasterSpec and BSD SpecLink, is a quality process audit program where the contractor has a "DRI", Designated Responsible Individual. The DRI passes an industry test based on the Firestop Industry Manual of Practice, (MOP) tested systems selection and the FM 4991 Standard, much like a CDT would pass a test at CSI. The DRI manages the Firestop Contracting Firms' Processes to be sure policies and procedures result in installed firestop systems that meet the tested and listed system published in the testing directories. During the FM 4991 Approval process FM visits the firm, audits to their quality manual, and then checks the installed firestop system in the field through destructive testing to verify the paperwork's validity. Follow up audits are done yearly by FM, with the same destructive testing employed by FM personnel. Effective quality programs have a procedure for the production process and sampling to be sure the process works. ASTM E 2174 is the check and balance that samples the production process for Firestop installation. The FM 4991 Program is quite affordable for a contractor. Initial cost is about $4000 – $6500 for the initial audit, and approx. $1500 for the follow up audit. So, to answer all of your questions, ASTM E 2174 is a package, together with FM 4991 that affects the installation protocol of firestop systems to result in better overall project quality. ASTM E 2174 can be used without a Specialty Firestop Contractor or an FM 4991 Approved Firestop Contractor on projects that use the "He or she who pokes hole fills it" protocol. However, the inspection will cost much more for the multiple trade method, as it's difficult to manage anywhere from 2 - 40 subcontractor firms that touch Effective Compartmentation with their penetrating pipes, ducts, cables, etc. Inspectors tell FCIA that the inspection costs rise dramatically due to multiple trades involved and submittal package variances to field applications that can be staggering, even with the 4,500 + tested systems in the UL Book. Long and short is, you may consider specifying tested and listed firestop systems made by quality manufacturers, installed by a Specialty Firestop Contractor (FCIA Member or course), and or FM 4991 Approved Contractor, inspected to ASTM E 2174, to make the total quality management process complete. Feel free to call if you have questions, as FCIA was involved in development of both ASTM E 2174 and FM 4991. Bill McHugh FCIA Executive Director 630.690.0682 Visit www.fcia.org for a list of FCIA Member Contractors and FM 4991 Approved, FCIA Member Contractors. David E Lorenzini Senior Member Username: deloren Post Number: 36 Registered: 04-2000 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2004 - 05:08 pm:    Bill Thanks for your detailed response. Can you put this into one or two sentences that we can use in our Quality Assurance article of our specifications? (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, August 04, 2004 - 04:25 pm:    David & Group...here's some language from the FCIA Specification on www.fcia.org , the FCIA Website: Contractor Qualifications: Acceptable installer firms shall be: 1. FM Approved in accordance with FM Standard 4991 – Approval of Firestop Contractors. 2.Licensed by the State or local authority, where applicable. 3.Shown to have successfully completed not less than 5 comparable scale projects. 4.Firestop Contractors International Association Contractor Member in good standing. Inspection.... A. Inspection –Independent inspection agency employed and paid by owner, will examine penetration firestopping in accordance with ASTM E–2174, “Standard Practice for On-Site Inspection of Installed Fire Stops”. Inspection agency to examine firestopping and will determine, in general, that firestopping has been installed in compliance with requirements of tested and listed firestop system, and installation process conforms to FM 4991 – Standard for Approval of Firestop Contractors. B. The inspector shall advise the contractor of any deficiencies noted within one (1) working day. C.Do not proceed to enclose firestopping with other construction until inspection agency has verified that the firestop installation complies with the requirements. D.Where deficiencies are found, repair or replace the firestopping so that it complies with requirements of tested and listed system design. Please feel free to call should you have questions. Bill McHugh FCIA Executive Director 630.690.0682 Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 107 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 05, 2004 - 01:48 pm:    Bill- how prevalent are members of your organization -- is it possible to find a couple of them in every state, or will part of your requirements be impossible to enforce in some areas of the country? (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, August 06, 2004 - 12:21 pm:    Anne, Thanks for your question about the number of Firestopping Contractors available throughout the country. FCIA Member Specialty Firestop Contractors are represented in almost all states. One thing to remember about the Firestopping industry is that these contractor firms travel, and without extra large extra expense due to the nature of the trade. Firestopping is a knowledge intensive business, not an equipment or heavy material intensive business. Firestop Systems installation protocol knowledge and labor travel easily, where equipment and large, heavy materials do not. Many FCIA Member, FM 4991 Contractors travel large areas providing competitive bidding. FCIA is very pleased about growth of the firestop contractor membership, currently around 85 locations in the US and Canada. Additionally, FM 4991 Approved Contractors are being added at the rate of about 15% per year as specifiers, architect/engineers and building owners require FM 4991 Approval, and contractors respond and supply to meet the demand. To see a listing of FCIA Members and FM 4991 Contractors, visit www.fcia.org. Bill McHugh FCIA Executive Director 630.690.0682