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ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg

Post Number: 1507
Registered: 12-2006

Posted on Friday, September 09, 2022 - 04:47 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Okay, riddle me this:
How can polyisocyanurate insulation, any type, be considered Red List Free?

A 2011 study of fire toxicity of insulating materials at the University of Central Lancashire's Centre for Fire and Hazard Science studied PIR and other commonly used materials under more realistic and wide-ranging conditions representative of a wider range of fire hazard, observing that most fire deaths resulted from toxic product inhalation. The study evaluated the degree to which toxic products were released, looking at toxicity, time-release profiles, and lethality of doses released, in a range of flaming, non-flaming, and poorly ventilated fires, and concluded that PIR generally released a considerably higher level of toxic products than the other insulating materials studied (PIR > PUR > EPS > PHF; glass and stone wools also studied).[7] In particular, hydrogen cyanide is recognised as a significant contributor to the fire toxicity of PIR (and PUR) foams. (Source: https://firesciencereviews.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s40038-016-0012-3 The Fire Toxicity of Polyurethane Foams - McKenna and Hull 2016; Fire Science Reviews, 5:3, 2016; doi:10.1186/s40038-016-0012-3)

How the hell is cyanide not a Red List concern?

So great, they don't use halogenated fire retardants. What part of CYANIDE are you choosing to ignore!!!
(Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Sunday, September 11, 2022 - 11:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Good question, Ken. An interesting fact: The pits (seeds) of some stone fruits like apricots, cherries, plums, and peaches contain a compound called amygdalin which breaks down into hydrogen cyanide when ingested. Of course ingesting and inhaling are two different things. One would have to swallow many (and probably crushed) peach pits to have a noticeable effect.

Cyanide (perhaps the term comes from the pale blue color of the liquid or gas) kills by competing with oxygen for binding sites on red blood cells. This is why inhaling the gas is so dangerous.
Steven Bruneel, Retired Architect
Senior Member
Username: redseca2

Post Number: 711
Registered: 12-2006

Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 03:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I recall becoming the referee between a rock and a hard place: A stubborn structural engineer with their cast-in-place PVC waterstops, and a University project manager and their redlist banning PVC. We finally agreed that:
1. PVC was evil.
2. These evil PVC waterstops unfortunately already existed.
3. The best thing to do with the evil PVC waterstops would be to permanently entomb them deep in the ground in the 2 foot thick foundation walls of the project.
James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: jsandoz

Post Number: 357
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Monday, September 12, 2022 - 07:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Take that evil PVC waterstops. If entombment in concrete is good enough for gangsters it is good enough for evil PVC.

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