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David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt

Post Number: 1410
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 11:46 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Let me start off by saying that I have not done a LEED project in over 5 or more years. I have done a lot of Washington Sustainable School Protocol (WSSP) projects which is very similiar to Collaborative for High Performance Schools (CHPS). I have also worked on BuiltGreen projects. This is all to say that I am familiar with sustainable projects.

Currently I have a project where I am working with a LEED consultant. The question is should I expect them to "spoon feed" me information to put directly in the specifications? Or should I expect to put all the information in myself and have them review each section? Will there be an overall Division 01 section that will take care of all the LEED requirements? What has been your experience?
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant/Web Publisher
www.localproductreps.com
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan

Post Number: 827
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 12:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

We use MasterSpec which has appropriate requirements in individual specification sections and appropriate sections for Division 01 (construction waste management, Sustainability requirements, and general commissioning). You might get away with putting some general requirements in Division 01, but the reality is that to meet the IAQ requirements related to low VOC materials, you will have to have appropriate requirements in each relevant section.

It is my experience that the LEED consultant needs some spoon feeding since they sometimes don't understand construction documents and what actually needs to go in the specs. I once had a LEED consultant insist that I put in each section a statement to the effect that the GC was responsible for LEED certification. He just about went ballistic when I pointed out that the GC could not be responsible for everything related to LEED certification. Most other consultants are more cooperative and even helpful. One local LEED consultant has said to me on a couple of projects that she is always relieved when she knows that I am involved.
Nathan Woods, CSI, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: nwoods

Post Number: 654
Registered: 08-2005


Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 12:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Its a mix, I usually get (from the LEED consultant) some boiler plate language for Part 1 of specs that pertain to Green items. I usually get a marked up TOC for which to apply the boiler plate, and then we work together to insert product specific items on an as needed basis if I don't already have it.
Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: lazarcitec

Post Number: 1320
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 12:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I agree with Nathan, however since the LEED Consultant is a consultant retained by the Developer, I require specific Div 1 LEED spec sections to be prepared entirely by the LEED Consultant, just as I require the MEP or LA to prepare their specific specification sections.
anon (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 01:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Green Building Consultant's that I have worked with do not have even the slightest understanding about Contract Documents. And I have worked with just about all of them. It is sad, really, because they could be a very valuable resource to project teams, but instead what they have provided on the projects i have worked on is boilerplate Div 01 and Technical Section language that is often poorly written and contradictory to my tight Division 01 and Technical Sections. I NEVER allow them to simply drop their recommended content into my specs. Never. I go through the painful discussions with each and every one of them and attempt to educate/explain to them how it all works, and why i cannot just incorporate the garbage they provide. Occasionally, I get one that understands and appreciates. More often I get push back and pissy emails and threats about how I am putting the LEED certification at jeopardy in not wholly adopting what they think is best - ridiculous and completely untrue.

And why are we surprised that they are so incompetent and ignorant? None of them have any sort of credible educational background or professional accreditation - just look at their LinkedIn pages. A LEED AP and any number of non-architect/engineer degrees is what you will find. None that I have worked with have a professional registration or advanced degree in a construction related discipline. None have a CDT, CCCA, or CCS.

If you have the stomach for it, resist the demands that their language be incorporated as provided. I have never had a problem with any project when doing this, in fact I will say that MY push back and insistence on the basic rules of spec preparation have served those project very well - much better than the mess that would have resulted had I simply dropped in the garbage they insist on.
Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap
Senior Member
Username: lgoodrob

Post Number: 273
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 09:34 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

David,
This is an excellent topic for this forum!
For LEED, LBC, CHPS, and even Estidama projects, I have worked with a variety of "environmental advisors" of varying skills and competencies. Some are trained architects/engineers and some come from a education or public policy background. Some are excellent and some are not, regardless of their resumes. As a curmudgeonly/know-it-all specifier, I hate being told what to do. When the stars align, we all bring important insights to the table and learn from each other.

I have one consultant with whom we prepared Div 01 sections and Div 02-14 language together. Now we can concentrate on content, and projects with her office go very smoothly.
We have another LEED consultant who checks in with us during documentation and certification. He lets us know when LEED online documentation has changed and when our specification language could be more clear for subcontractors who don't really understand the program.
A large facility Owner's green building team insists on using their own Division 01 sections, which are outdated and vague, but their people really know their stuff. I'm working on moving their specifications forward, simultaneously into MasterFormat 1995 and LEED v4.
We have another great consultant who does materials research and tracking for LBC projects. None of them are architects, but they understand how to share and to work collaboratively. I don't know how we would survive without them.

You may need to educate your consultant about the role of specifications and the basics. You may need to beat them over the head with the concept of "say it once." And you may have other consultants who will not make any comments about the specifications at all.
The goal of working with yet another consultant (whatever type) should be to improve the project results for the Owner.
-
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt

Post Number: 1411
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 11:45 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

The LEED consultant send me the score sheet, Division 01 sections, LEED rating system and language to drop into individual sections. I started dropping the standard LEED language into my specifications last night. Now I am even more confused than ever. His standard LEED language is poorly written and incomplete. I could spend the rest of my allotted time and fee correcting his LEED language or I could finish the specs.

I don't know what to do. Should I just drop in his language and let him review the individual specs and correct it? How do I not look bad in front of my client yet avoid responsibility/liability of the LEED credits?

BTW, I do use MasterSpec but unfortunately LEED for Homes Rating System Multi-Family Midrise 2010 is very different and much more confusing.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant/Web Publisher
www.localproductreps.com
Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: lazarcitec

Post Number: 1321
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 11:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

How about adding NGBS to the discussion, I've been asked to include NGBS in lieu of LEED, yet there are only a few Green Consultants who are working with NGBS and none of them are able to provide specs.
Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: lazarcitec

Post Number: 1322
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 12:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

David this is why I never prepare a LEED specific spec section. I will add LEED language to a division 2-31 spec section that I have prepared, but only because I have full control of the language in the spec section. I leave the LEED Specific spec sections to the LEED Consultant, if its poorly written that is his/her problem, they are not my consultant.

I can't believe you don't have a disclaimer in your agreement regarding liability for the LEED credits, that is not your responsibility, this is why the client/owner/developer has retained a LEED Consultant. Isn't it?
Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap
Senior Member
Username: lgoodrob

Post Number: 274
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 12:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I feel your pain about LEED for Homes. It's part of the USGBC full employment act to make every version of LEED slightly different than the last one.

If you are already part way through adding poorly written LEED language, then try to keep it clearly identifiable and consistent so you can run macros to change it later.
If the LEED comments came in at the eleventh hour, you could tell your client the information is too late for you to carefully review and coordinate. Then send back a list of question, copy to the Owner and Architect.
In either case, you want to show your client that you don't mean to be obstructionist, but this isn't up to project standards, quality of care, etc.
-
Ann Sobiech Munson, AIA CSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: acsobiech

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2014
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 01:11 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

We work with a fantastic LEED consultant in a highly collaborative process. Typically she is hired as one of our consultants (we are the architect) early in the project. She will develop her own Div 01 sections and forms, but she reviews my and our other consultants' technical sections for appropriate language, typically related to submittals for Part 1 and sustainability requirements for Part 2. She also assists with submittal review during CA.

She has a keen interest in documentation, along with design expertise (architect by training/previous experience), so we often have discussions about the best place to locate various requirements to achieve the most effective results.
anon (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 01:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

David,

Aren't you just asking rhetorical questions? How would any of the forum participants know how to advise you without knowing what your contractual obligations are in your agreement with the client? Is the LEED consultant your consultant? I suspect that your duties and responsibilities with respect to incorporating the LEED consultant's stuff is probably spelled out in your agreement (or it certainly should be).
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt

Post Number: 1412
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 01:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Anon,
There no LEED agreements in my contract. Why should there be? I am not a LEED expert just like I am not a building envelope consultant or structural engineer, yet I write those sections.

I am just asking how others have worked with LEED consultants. I want to learn ways to lessen my work and exposure.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant/Web Publisher
www.localproductreps.com
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey

Post Number: 744
Registered: 01-2008


Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 02:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

David,

Answer is yes.

Both internal and external.

No war stories to tell.
anon (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Wednesday, May 20, 2015 - 02:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Hmmm. Sounds like maybe you are asking for business advice, then.

Standard forms of agreement for architectural services typically require that specifications, including Division 01 specification sections, be prepared by the Architect. Division 01 includes Sustainable Requirements (check your copy of MasterFormat). It is arguable that at a minimum you would likely be on the hook for writing that specification section.

The AIA B101 includes LEED Certification as an additional service. That is what I would suggest your agreement with clients do as well - stipulate this as something specific, and decide whether or not is is within your basic services or is an additional service.

Additionally, the AIA B101 commentary states that the Architect, during schematic design and as part of its basic services, discuss with the Owner the feasibility of incorporating environmentally responsible design approaches into the project, and how that would best be accomplished.

The answer(s) to your question about how others deal with this is perhaps not all that relevant to your specific situation. As an independent specifier, your contractual obligations are likely very different than many who responded to you that work within a firm, where specification duties and obligations are clearly stipulated.

All of this goes back to your agreement for the work you are doing. If mute on anything to do with LEED or sustainability, I suggest that your problem is not solved by asking what others do, but by revising your agreement to clearly stipulate what your obligations are for this, what you can and cannot do.

I would also suggest that the work you do needs to be consistent with what your insurance policy covers - and i kind of doubt that your policy covers you writing specifications for things that are typically delegated to specific disciplines - like the structural engineer for example. Check your subconsultant agreement as well - again, typically, subconsultants that are contractually obligated to produce and seal Contract Documents are also contractually obligated to write their own specifications (and sometimes seal them). Building envelope consultants typically fall into the non-Contract-Document producing/sealing consultants, so yes, it is appropriate that you write those sections since they fall under the Architect's responsibility.
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin

Post Number: 591
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2015 - 02:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

David: To answer your question - i have worked on many LEED projects and provided the spectrum of services regarding scope. I provide a fee for "integration of LEED requirements" that is a range, since i never know ahead of time what the consultant will/won't provide. I have worked with some that do nothing but provide credits and others that work with me in a highly collaborative manner to provide specs, language and review my specs. Is the language they provided "bad" in terms of our high CSI standards, or is it "bad" in that it won't communicate the intent to the contractor. If it's the first, insert it and move on. If it's the second, send an email with suggestions. It shouldn't take you more than 10-15 minutes to tweak their language and then cut/paste the better language, after getting their approval. My contract either states that (1) my fee excludes LEED or (2) disclaimer of any liability.
Brian Salazar LEED AP BD+C
Junior Member
Username: entegragreen

Post Number: 2
Registered: 05-2016


Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2016 - 09:21 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Hi all - I am new here and just stumbled upon this site. As a LEED consultant, I agree that the "grey area" between the consultant and the spec writer is an uncomfortable one at times.

One of the ways we have made this work with our clients is by including very targeted LEED-specific language under Division 01. Here issues such as the client's goals, the LEED scorecard, the GC responsibilities, etc. are all laid out for the GC as well as all the subs to review and understand. We use the USGBC's own language by copy-pasting LEED language directly into the Specs, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. We direct the teams to the LEED Reference Guide and web site for additional information. Then at the beginning of each subsequent section is a very short sub-heading for LEED as a reminder for that sub to review the LEED requirements under Section 01.

One last thing we do is incorporate a special Commissioning Section to the Specs. Again, most of the LEED-specific language is handled with a reference to the guide book and web site. The project specific information on testing and reporting is provided by the CxA.

The system isn't perfect, but we have been able to short-circuit many issues with this approach. Far less conflicting information for the subs when bidding a job and more clarity for the rest of the team as well.

Entegra Development & Investment, LLC
www.entegra-re.com
@entegragreen

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