PEFC - Is it LEED v4 compliant

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Author Message ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 658 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, December 18, 2013 - 05:01 pm:    I haven't had the time to investigate this right now so thought I'd ask. Has LEED gotten around to accepting PEFC or are we still restricted to the world of FSC or nothing? Thanks. Peggy White, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP BD+C Senior Member Username: peggy Post Number: 68 Registered: 07-2007 Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 01:08 pm:    FSC only for now. When the other forest certification systems reach the high bar set by FSC they will be welcomed. anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 12:39 pm:    LEED v4 still restricts anything wood-related to FSC certification (for point contribution). Green Globes, however, endorsed by the GSA as better than the LEED rating systems, allows PEFC, SFI, and FSC certified wood to contribute. It is a superior rating system to LEED. Bruce Maine Senior Member Username: btmaine Post Number: 22 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 01:50 pm:    It depends on the credit being pursued. The Sourcing of Raw Materials specifically references FCS. However, in MR CREDIT: BUILDING PRODUCT DISCLOSURE AND OPTIMIZATION— ENVIRONMENTAL PRODUCT DECLARATIONS, I suspect if a wood product can comply with Environmental Product Declarations which conform to ISO 14025, 14040, 14044, and EN 15804 or ISO 21930 and have at least a cradle to gate scope it likely a non FCS wood product can be specified. I have a number of wood EPDs and LCAs that meet LEED ISO criteria where the wood is not identified as being FSC. Bruce Maine CDT LEED AP ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 660 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 02:45 pm:    Thanks everyone. I didn't mean to have this politicized. I understand the desire to keep out the meaningless certifications but PEFC does a good job of chain-of-custody without politicizing the process. David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 52 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 02:45 pm:    Anon: Get ready to argue. This is going to be a looonnnggg thread! Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: don_harris Post Number: 275 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 05:29 pm:    A new wrinkle...This is a plans review comment from North Carolina. "A new House Bill was passed this legislative session to amend G.S.143-135.37(f) “Locally Sourced Materials. – To achieve sustainable building standards as required by this section, a major facility construction or renovation project may utilized a building rating system so long as the rating system (i) provides certification credits for (ii) provides a preference to be given to (iii) does not disadvantage, and (iv) promotes building materials or furnishings, including masonry, concrete, steel, textiles, or wood that are manufactured or produced within the State.” This bill is effective 10-1-2013. Ensure all materials are in compliance." My understanding is that NC has few, if any, FSC certified forests and this is the State's way of getting local wood into the projects. The language is a bit fuzzy, but it may have serious implications for LEED Certified Wood points, or even LEED in general, in NC. Anyone from NC out there with more info? Bruce Maine Senior Member Username: btmaine Post Number: 23 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Thursday, December 19, 2013 - 07:08 pm:    The FSC database lists the following certificate holders in North Carolina: http://info.fsc.org/index.php#result Not all of these products are building materials and remember, it's part of a credit and not a prerequisite. Depending on the amount of wood based products on any project the credit wasn't that difficult to satisfy in previous schemes. At least North Carolina doesn't expressly prohibit the use of FSC wood as some states do. Bruce Maine CDT LEED AP anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 02:30 pm:    Bruce, I, for one, would be very interested in knowing what states prohibit the use of FSC wood. I had not heard of that before. Can you please share this information with the group? Thanks. Bruce Maine Senior Member Username: btmaine Post Number: 24 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Monday, December 23, 2013 - 07:58 pm:    I probably should have worded my post on the FSC somewhat clearer but at the moment there is existing legislation or pending legislation in the states of Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, Maine, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina and Arkansas that prohibit or somewhat restrict the use of FSC wood on public projects whether LEED or not. Most opponents for excluding FSC products maintain that bidding FSC amounts to a proprietary bidding scenario. Another objection referenced in some of the legislation is the fact that LEED has no ANSI standard when, in fact, it’s uncertain that any green building program can satisfy those requirements. If anyone is aware of any updates regarding this issue please let me know. Bruce Maine CDT LEED AP anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, December 24, 2013 - 11:54 am:    Bruce, I am unable to find any of the legislation you claim exists that prohibits or restricts the use of FSC wood on public projects. I do find legislation in the states you reference requiring that additional wood certification programs for wood used on publicly funded buildings be accepted, alongside FSC, but nothing prohibiting or restricting in any way the use of FSC wood. Are you sure you are reporting factual information here? Can you provide an excerpt or the name of the legislation you refer to on this topic? Also, you are wrong about the uncertainty about a green building program satisfying the ANSI requirement. Green Globes is an ANSI certified green building rating system. Here is a blurb from the GBI website about this: To that end, in 2005, GBI became the first green building organization to be accredited as a standards developer by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). The GBI ANSI technical committee was formed in early 2006 and the official Green Globes ANSI standard was published in 2010. The standard is available to the public. I encourage you to get a copy and take a look. It's pretty good. The US General Services Administration recently evaluated this standard against LEED and found it to be better than LEED. Yes, you read that correctly - BETTER than LEED. Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIPa, LEED AP BD+C, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 316 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, January 03, 2014 - 01:49 pm:    If so, soon these states will think it is a good idea to make all non-vinyl plastics illegal too. Bruce Maine Senior Member Username: btmaine Post Number: 25 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Friday, January 03, 2014 - 03:44 pm:    Anon is correct. NSI/GBI 01-2010 Green Building Assessment Protocol for Commercial Buildings has been published by the GBI. Even though the GSA has accepted Green Globes as equal to LEED it will be interesting to see if evolves into a serious competitor. Although a number of federal agencies have Green Globes projects in their portfolios there still seems to be a perception that Green Globes is anything but "transparent". It is certainly more of an issue where state governments require an ANSI accredited program to be used for green building projects. For those interested in following legal issues relating to green building I recommend subscribing to the Green Building Law Update at: http://www.greenbuildinglawupdate.com Bruce Maine CDT LEED AP anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, January 03, 2014 - 04:05 pm:    Bruce, What about the FSC wood prohibitions/restrictions you mentioned? Is anon also correct about that? Are there really any such prohibitions/restrictions? Bruce Maine Senior Member Username: btmaine Post Number: 26 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 12:30 pm:    There are no official wood bans but, for example, Ohio resolution, SCR 25, takes on LEED v4 directly, asserting that LEED v4 should no longer be used by Ohio state agencies and government entities. Alabama SB326 has already passed the Senate and a House committee essentially makes LEED standards illegal for construction and renovation of public buildings. N.C. House Bill 628 legislation says public projects under construction or renovation may use “a nationally recognized high-performance environmental building rating system” if that green building program doesn’t use a credit system “disadvantaging materials or products manufactured or produced” in North Carolina. All of this legislation is in response to the old LEED Certified Wood credit which has changed, as I previously noted,in V4. Bruce Maine CDT LEED AP anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, January 06, 2014 - 05:18 pm:    So, contrary to your earlier post, there is no legislation that you can cite that prohibits or restricts the use of FSC wood in any way. Thank you for the clarification. Jonathan Miller, FCSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: jmma_specs Post Number: 20 Registered: 04-2009 Posted on Wednesday, July 16, 2014 - 04:10 pm:    LEED v4 credit MR3, Option 2 states the following: Wood products. Wood products must be certified by the Forest Stewardship Council or USGBC-approved equivalent. Products meeting wood products criteria are valued at 100% of their cost for the purposes of credit achievement calculation. Option 3 states: Wood products. Wood products must be certified by the Forest Stewardship Council or USGBC-approved equivalent. Unfortunately Green Globes does accept "certified wood" from multiple certifiers. As previously stated.... only FSC comes close to having proper and verifiable criteria. The rest do not... especially the American Tree Farm System (AFS)!