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David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt

Post Number: 1811
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

In all my years in architecture I have never heard of this happening. I was informed yesterday by one of my architectural clients that two low bids (on a public project) came in EXACTLY the same! The client and architect decided to rebid the project.

Have you ever had this situation? What have you done?
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC
Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP
Senior Member
Username: wilsonconsulting

Post Number: 299
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 01:07 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

COLLUSION maybe?

Of course the odds are low, but it's bound to happen sometime by the law of averages. I don't suppose the procurement laws allow negotiating w/ the low bidders, which would be a lot more efficient than a complete rebid.
Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP
Wilson Consulting Inc
Ardmore PA
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt

Post Number: 1812
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 01:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I also initially thought collusion, but it certainly did not do the two bidders any good.

This is a perfect scenario where alternates would have been advantageous.

The architect is not changing anything about the project in order to rebid. I cannot see a bidder giving a different bid for the same project, unless they really wanted the job. The two times I have been involved with a rebid, many bidders refused to resubmit another bid.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC
Chris Sanders
Senior Member
Username: chris_sanders

Post Number: 16
Registered: 05-2016
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 01:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Never had this happen (unfortunately!) at a bid opening I attended, but a past client once settled a public-bid tie with a coin toss.
Dan Helphrey
Senior Member
Username: dbhelphrey

Post Number: 32
Registered: 12-2018
Posted on Tuesday, July 23, 2019 - 01:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Can't speak for any other states, but here in California, Public Contract Code Section 20166 says: "If two or more bids are the same and the lowest, the legislative body may accept the one it chooses."
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt

Post Number: 1818
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2019 - 03:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I just received news of the results of the rebid of the previously tied project. The low bidder was only one percent below the previous two tied amounts! The two firms that were tied did not rebid the job. The architect wisely put a few alternates in the project in case of yet another tie.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC
Joe Edwards (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 01:22 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

David - Your first post indicated it was a public project; your most recent post said the architect put in a few alternates. Public projects generally are bid and awarded with a clearly defined SOW, not with alternates as it is not possible to clearly identify the low bidder without the impression of favoring someone. How did the alternates work in determining the lowest, responsive, responsible bidder?

BTW - I have handled one project where there was a tie between two bidders. Both agreed to cut the cards. New deck used, opened and shuffled in front of them. First contractor cut a 3. Second contractor cut a 2. Both were happy.
David J. Wyatt, CDT
Senior Member
Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt

Post Number: 309
Registered: 03-2011
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 04:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Public projects in the state of Ohio are awarded based on the aggregate total of the Base Bid and accepted alternates. So, sometimes the lowest bidder on the Base Bid does not end up having the lowest aggregate after the accepted alternates are factored. I am not sure of the bidding rules in other states, but I would bet some if not most are similar.
Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP
Senior Member
Username: wilsonconsulting

Post Number: 302
Registered: 03-2006


Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 05:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

It works similarly here in Pennsylvania. Alternates are frequently used in publicly bid projects, but must be accepted in the sequence in which they're arranged in the bidding documents.
Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP
Wilson Consulting Inc
Ardmore PA
Dan Helphrey
Senior Member
Username: dbhelphrey

Post Number: 36
Registered: 12-2018
Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 05:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

In California, we are required to publish in the invitation to bid exactly which alternates will be included in determining the low bidder - the owner then still has the option of including or excluding each alternate, but only after the notice of award.
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg

Post Number: 1231
Registered: 12-2006


Posted on Tuesday, August 20, 2019 - 05:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

In the past I worked on projects for jurisdictions where we were tasked with listing Alternates in order of importance. As the Alternates were accepted the pricing was adjusted. As soon as an Alternate in the list was not accepted or the upset budget amount was reached, no Alternates further down the list could be considered (so the order of listing was important).

Very curious way of doing business.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt

Post Number: 1819
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 - 12:25 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

All my public work projects in Washington state have alternates. A few alternates, in my opinion, is okay, but a lot of alternates means the architect (and cost estimator) are clueless as to the real cost of the project.

The dirty little secret, that everyone knows about, is that alternates are sometimes use to exclude a bidder. I worked on one project where an alternate was not taken which would exclude a certain contractor. Then mid project the school district then adds the work of that alternate back in.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: bunzick

Post Number: 1790
Registered: 03-2002
Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 - 10:28 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Massachusetts requires alternates to be accepted in order, with award going to the lowest bidder including selected alternates. Once project is awarded is made, the awarding authority cannot add back work that was in an alternate that wasn't accepted.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt

Post Number: 1820
Registered: 03-2002


Posted on Wednesday, August 21, 2019 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

John,
The procedure that you described makes a lot of sense.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC

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