Coordination Drawings

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Author Message Ellis C. Whitby, AIA, PE, CSI Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 11 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 11:15 am:    Two questions: 1. Does anyone have experience in requiring contractors to utilize color in Coordination Drawings when such drawings are a required submittal? Several of our engineers find that on complex projects colored lines in the Coordination Drawings greatly improve the legibility of the drawing. These Coordination Drawings are generally primarily MEP in their orientation, and the only architectural and structural component involved is when there is a conflict with MEP. Some of my CCA associates in other office believe this request is unreasonable: reasons include a lack of CAD ability by some contractors and a lack of compatible CAD platforms for all subcontractors. We are considering requiring color only in large complex projects, so I personally doubt it would be a real problem. 2. Does anyone require structural coordination drawings to be submitted along with MEP coordination drawings? The thought would be to force the planning of all openings in slabs and beams, primarily in structural concrete structure. Thoughts on advantages/disadvantages? I used to work at a large AE that required these, and we got complaints from contractors, but usually were able to convince the Owner of the usefulness of the effort. Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 315 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:23 pm:    since the coordination drawings are a tool for the contractors to use, I'm not certain we have any business requiring colors -- if they think colors will make it more useful, then they can use colors. I'm not certain I could make a legitimate argument for that, particularly if we know that its not commonly used in the area. I have some philosophical issues simply with requiring coordination drawings -- I see them as a tool for the contractor and believe they should be making that requirement of themselves. However, I've been convinced over the years that 1) requiring coordination drawings means that someone will actually put money in their bid and do them; and 2) if we require it of the general, then they can pass down the requirement to the subs and again, actually get the information they need. we do require structural coordination drawings with other elements of the project, if we think there might be problems with all of those things fitting together, and particularly where we have PT slabs. those drawings are simply listed as another set of coordination drawings. in general, we require: 1) above-ceiling drawings, showing ceiling supports, mechanical, fire suppression, electrical, telecom, lighting fixtures and anything else up there. 2) exterior wall coordination showing all the parts, pieces, structure, windows, doors, etc 3) PT slab penetrations, including M, E, P, telecom, structural and the like 4) any other project specific. we often (with a disclaimer) provide electronic base drawings. the rest of the format is up to the submitting general contractor. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 494 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, March 20, 2006 - 09:27 am:    Where reasonably well-prepared coordination drawings have been done on jobs I've been involved with, they have been done in CAD, usually by a (outside) specialist in that task. Color is preferred for the reasons stated, and with the proliferation of color plotters and repro houses who can do that, I see no issue. In fact, most I've seen have done this on their own for their own benefit. And yes, structural elements should be on the coordination drawings otherwise what's the use? However, the way I've seen it done is for the coordination drawing "technician" uses the structural shops and puts the shapes into their drawing. Anne's point that we shouldn't have to ask for it is true, and she's also right that requiring is the only way to see it get done. Boy, does it sure save some massive headaches, though. Once BIM is adopted, (and designers get over their squeamishness about sharing electronic docs) coordination drawings will be even easier, and more useful.