|David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP|
Post Number: 1921
|Posted on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 01:13 pm: |
Recently a product representative ask me where I put the substitution request form in my project manuals. He said he has seen them in both Division 00 and in Division 01.
I always put the substitution request form right after Section 012500 Substitution Procedures. That said, I see that substitution request forms are also listed in MasterFormat as Document 006325 Substitution Request Form.
The representative said it was very confusing because different architectural firms put the form in different places.
Where do you put the form?
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Axt Consulting LLC
|Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS |
Post Number: 353
|Posted on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 01:44 pm: |
I place it after 01 25 00 for substitution after IFC. The Document number is 00 63 25, but in placing it after the procedures section I make sure it remains with the contract documents. IF I'm requested to provide a form for during bids I'll place it behind the bid instructions.
|David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA, A-SCIP, LEED AP|
Post Number: 23
|Posted on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 02:05 pm: |
We use 00 26 00 - Procurement Substitution Procedures (for requests during the bidding period),
and 01 25 00 - Substitution Procedures (for requests after award of contract).
In both instances, the respective substitution request form is included as an attachment to the document / section.
Since the process for processing and notification is different depending on during bidding versus during construction, the forms are slightly different. As such, we typically include both on most of our projects.
David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP
Corgan Associates, Inc.
Sr. Specifier, Sr. Associate
Post Number: 939
|Posted on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 02:44 pm: |
There has always been two forms created by CSI.
CSI FORM 1.5C During the Bidding Period and
CSI FORM 1.13A After the Bidding/Negotiation Phase.
These are pre-MasterFormat 2020 and did not have a MasterFormat Document numbers. Both were copyrighted.
I include both as described by David Combs.
Post Number: 704
|Posted on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 04:21 pm: |
What David said. We add the phrase "Prior Approval Form" to the Division 00 form because we so often have manufacturers requesting being added to a closed list. We're using the Division 01 construction phase form less often these days opting for forms built into web based project management software that many of our projects use. We still do state what information we want to receive, however, so that we can justify rejection if it is needed.
Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA
SpecGuy Specifications Consultants
Post Number: 940
|Posted on Monday, May 02, 2022 - 04:40 pm: |
Do you select the web based project management software and mandate your choice for the Contractor to use?
Or do you specify a list (ala MasterSpec) of products found in Section 013100 and let the Contractor choose?
I have been leaving the choice to the Contractor. I have not seen a sample of a substitution request form in a project management software for post bid submissions. We still use the CSI FORM 1.13A.
In the past for design-bid-build projects I used Maynard Blumer's "Prior Approval" method (circa 1986) for reduced risk bidding.
Been several years (2018) since I specified for a design-bid-build project.
|Guest (Unregistered Guest)|
|Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2022 - 01:17 pm: |
Primarily I place it after the substitution request procedures sections (ex. 002601 or 012501 depending on whether for substitutions during procurement or construction). It's not following MasterFormat exactly, but I'm ok with it.
In some ways I like the idea of having the forms together in Div 00, but I usually don't have teams that have all these forms ready for use to include in the Project Manual. So I end up with only a couple and it seems easier to keep them in both numbering and in location with the sections outlining their use. I've done it both ways though.
As to the product representative who finds it hard to find the form ... ok. Sorry (not sorry). It will be listed on the table of contents. If you can't locate it, I'm not losing any sleep over it. The fewer substitution requests I get from product representatives the better IMHO. All substitution requests should be coming from bidders or the contractor. I'm not interested in spending my time and fee reviewing a substitution request if no one is actually going to bid it or use it on the project.
Finally, I'll also point out MasterFormat has Section 004325 "Substitution Request Form (During Procurement)" as a place for these forms during procurement that hasn't been mentioned yet.
Post Number: 96
|Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2022 - 02:08 pm: |
If I include forms at all, I try to include them as attachments to the Sections that call for them, rather than giving them their own numbers (even though MF does have numbers for them). As much as possible, I prefer to just call for an AIA, CSI, or other standard form by reference.
Post Number: 707
|Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2022 - 06:00 pm: |
Wayne: The question of web-based project management software is usually driven by our architect client (if they are this savvy) or by the selected CM or ultimate GC, in that order. Few projects are run without it. Our largest architect firm uses Newforma, and is perfecting Newforma-to-Procore linkage.
Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA
SpecGuy Specifications Consultants
|Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS|
Post Number: 1472
|Posted on Monday, May 09, 2022 - 07:01 pm: |
It goes in Division 01, because it is a procedure, not a contract. Most of our work is either negotiated or design/build and we have to remind contractors to use the form if they are trying to sneak in some product no one has heard of before.