Bypassing mirror doors?

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Author Message David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1861 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2021 - 05:43 pm:    Where would I put residential bypassing mirrored closet doors? David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 620 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2021 - 05:45 pm:    IMHO with other bypassing doors Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2259 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2021 - 05:47 pm:    On the closet? (grin) David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1862 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2021 - 07:26 pm:    Well to answer my own question it looks like MasterFormat puts those closet doors in 105736.13 Sliding Closet Doors. I could not find them because I was actually looking in Division 08 Openings.....like any sane person would! BTW, I consider roof hatches doors and feel that they also belong in Division 08. Heck, skylights are in Division 08 because they are "windows". But that is an argument for another post. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1151 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2021 - 10:23 pm:    Closet doors (sliding and bifold) are usually assemblies and are considered specialties. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 72 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Thursday, March 25, 2021 - 11:58 pm:    We wouldn't want Masterformat to be too easy - if everyone could do it, we'd be out of a job... James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 319 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, March 26, 2021 - 08:39 am:    J. Peter's point is valid. Sliding closet doors are assemblies with track and hardware but aren't many of the work results under 083000 also assemblies? I've been writing specifications for a while - many of us have - and we can navigate around the proclivities of MasterFormat but it makes explaining things to those less experienced a bit difficult. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1863 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, March 26, 2021 - 12:47 pm:    Peter, Sound control doors, Total Doors, revolving entrances, floor doors, access doors, etc. are also assemblies and specialty items. Why aren't they also in Division 10? David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 596 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, March 26, 2021 - 01:52 pm:    "Closet Door" is different than "Door Installed as Entrance to Closet." If I were specifying a stile and rail wood door with full mortise hinges, dummy trim, and magnetic catch, of course it would be in division 08. I see nothing wrong with keeping off-the-shelf "closet doors" as part of the broader 10 57 00 Wardrobe and Closet Specialties. Further questions: - Difference between "wardrobe" and "closet"? - Can you use "closet doors" on a wardrobe"? - Where would you specify "Wardrobe doors"? - Why isn't there a section for "upward-acting closet doors." And - Why would anyone want a door on an "upward-acting closet"? Is it the weekend yet? Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1864 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, March 29, 2021 - 01:05 pm:    Michael, I understand your logic about a closet door you reach into versus a closet door you pass through. So I guess we should change the name and section number of 083113 Access Door and Frames to Division 10 number. Most of the time those "doors" are really "panels" to hide a piece of mechanical equipment where a technician reaches into to operate a valve. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 793 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Monday, March 29, 2021 - 06:21 pm:    As a member of the MasterFormat Maintenance Task Team, we deal with questions like this at every meeting. Sometimes I think we're like theologians arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 621 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, March 29, 2021 - 08:36 pm:    The answer to life the universe and everything is 42, therefore the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin is also 42 James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 320 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 - 09:25 am:    Marc, in the Peanuts comic strip Peppermint Patty's answer to any question asked in class was '12.' I like 42 better. It is certainly a great domino game. As for the title of this thread, I cringe every time I pass by the mirrored doors on my closet. :-) Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2260 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2021 - 10:07 am:    Don't forget your towel! James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 321 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 - 09:37 am:    Touche, Lynn. But I meant only from the neck up. I don't even want to thing about the other. :-) Great rejoinder and it gave me a smile to start my day. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2261 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 - 11:06 am:    My comment is also a companion to Marc's, in case you've not familiar with the answer to life. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1354 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 10:07 am:    Life, the universe, and everything... Ah, but what is the question Hamlet? Ed Storer Senior Member Username: ed_storer Post Number: 80 Registered: 05-2009 Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 08:24 pm:    Lynn, We all know that the answer is 42, but what was the question. The Earth was supposed to provide the question(s), but it was destroyed by the Vogans. For those of you that don't understand the responses here, you need to read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy by Douglas Adams. There's a 4th book "So long and thanks for all the fish". But it was really unnecessary after the 3rd book, Life the Universe and Everything. Adams had some wonderful inventions like Planet of the Lost Ballpoints and an alien craft protected by a SEP Field (Somebody Else's Problem). Ed Storer, CSI Member Emeritus Ed Storer Senior Member Username: ed_storer Post Number: 81 Registered: 05-2009 Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 08:46 pm:    To respond to David's original question; I was told in my specifications course to place the information where the Contractor and subs were most likely to look for it. There are no Masterformat police. Put it in the Division where you would expect to find it. Ed Storer, CSI Member Emeritus Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2262 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 09:30 pm:    Ed, it's been quite a while since I've read the books; I may have to re-read them. When I left Flad for retirements, I sent an email to those I worked with using that wonderful sign-off. Ed Storer Senior Member Username: ed_storer Post Number: 82 Registered: 05-2009 Posted on Friday, April 02, 2021 - 09:40 pm:    Lynn, I got that piece from Tom Heinemann when I took the two-week course at UW Madison Extension in the summer of 1969. It was thoroughly enjoyable and I was ready to soak it up like a sponge. Over the weekend, I participated in a auto rally (precision, not speed). I wish I could recall the name of the UW Madison employee who put the event together so well. We had Harold Rosen's book for most of our reading assignments - great book! Ed Storer, CSI Member Emeritus