Solid wood cabinets

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Author Message Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP Senior Member Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip Post Number: 529 Registered: 02-2014 Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 11:38 am:    A client is asking if we can specify solid wood cabinets, with the idea that particleboard or MDF cannot be durable enough for K-12 school projects. My understanding is that MDF would be more durable than particleboard, and that there is not even a place in MasterFormat for solid wood cabinets, so they must not be used all that often anymore. Does anyone else specify solid wood cabinets? Suggested # & title? Or any thoughts on specifying good durability if MDF is used? We have sometimes specified exterior grade plywood instead for countertops in potentially wet locations like at sinks. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2246 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 11:49 am:    I’d contact AWI for an answer to this question. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 11:46 am:    Another option I'm now thinking of is all cabinets/countertops are veneered or PLAM over plywood -- so just eliminate MDF and particleboard or only allow the for backs, drawers, etc. Then a new spec section is not needed. The original question is still of interest to me though. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 546 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 12:25 pm:    I saw a solid wood cabinet once. It was hewn from a single block of wood. Of course you can specify it. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP Senior Member Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip Post Number: 530 Registered: 02-2014 Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 12:53 pm:    Or even solid gold : ) ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1291 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 12:53 pm:    Chris, are these cabinets MDF with PLam of just solid MDF? There's some neat powder-coat finishes available that may add to the durability of exposed MDF but it's not cheap. I would expect PLam over MDF to be much more abuse-resistant than solid wood unless they're willing to pay a lot for thick, solid lumber that won't split over time. Think about the costs for jointing, sanding, and finishing. Besides, the Architect will need to detail what they want. Do they know what they're doing with that? As for PLam over plywood, most fabricators don't like that because PLam likes to delaminate from plywood. As for marine grade plywood at wet areas, I do specify that but prefer going solid surface at that point. I'd be curious to see the cost difference. I suppose you can use bolted plywood, screwed and glued to solid blocking, but then you're going to end up with kids getting lots of splinters. Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP Senior Member Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip Post Number: 531 Registered: 02-2014 Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 12:55 pm:    The client says MDF is fine just not particleboard. And to use MDO plywood for the shelving. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1292 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 12:57 pm:    Sounds reasonable. MDO takes paint better than most veneers. Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 256 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 01:00 pm:    In addition to sinks, other potentially wet areas are the bases/toe kicks. Solid lumber or other wood that won't swell is something to consider specifying for these locations, even if the rest of the cabinets include typical composite wood products. Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 213 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 03:12 pm:    We have clients who want Wood Veneer Cabinets referred to by some as solid wood cabinets. "Solid wood is lumber that has been milled directly from trees. Other types of wood, such as plywood, medium-density fiberboard or veneers, are manufactured from wood composites." anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, August 07, 2020 - 12:36 pm:    Ha. Depends entirely on what definition of "durable" is being used. Dimensional stability in the presence of fluctuating RH? - MDF is the clear winner. Ramming a library cart into a base cabinet at full teenage sprinter speed? Who knows - what is the ASTM test standard for that?? kinda silly to say solid wood is better without having even the slightest bit of evidence to back the statement up. You'd be better off NOT acquiescing to this request due to the potential negative consequences in using "soild" wood, IMO. John Bunzick Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1819 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Saturday, August 08, 2020 - 03:54 pm:    It seems to me that making sure you have durable casework is the goal. However, getting there by selecting materials may not work. Lot's of things can still go wrong: the hardware or the joinery may be insufficient, shelving too thin for the span, drawer slides inadequate, etc. What you should strive for is performance. The Architectural Woodwork Standards include requirements for casework integrity. Also, SEFA, for lab casework, has durability standards. Also, regarding plam vs. wood veneer. I don't think it's clear cut that plam is more durable. If it chips or is scratched, it may show more than wood veneer. Wood is somewhat repairable, plam is totally not. Laminates for the edging can come loose (I'd usually spec rubber edging for durability). I'd call AWI for advice, although they'll also push their quality inspection service. You may want that if there's a lot of casework involved. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 776 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 12:38 pm:    Section number and title? 664100 Architectural Wood casework. No need to drill down to children. Or can back-drill up to 064023 Interior Architectural Woodwork. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1135 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2020 - 11:24 am:    AWI is developing performance standards for their cabinets based on testing. Contact AWI for more information. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2248 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 13, 2020 - 11:52 am:    (Like I wrote in the beginning - just sayin')