Sound Isolation Membranes

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Author Message David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1685 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 02:02 pm:    What MasterFormat number would you use for a sound isolation membrane that goes under resilient sheet and resilient tile flooring? David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1498 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 02:12 pm:    09 05 71 "Acoustic Underlayment" Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1686 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 03:09 pm:    Ron, I must have missed that on www.masterformat.com. Thanks! David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1499 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 03:25 pm:    When the underlayment is used under just one type of flooring, I typically specify it as a part of the flooring material as an accessory material. If the underlayment is used under more than one material, then I will specify it separately and have each flooring section refer to the underlayment section. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1687 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, June 20, 2018 - 04:52 pm:    Ron, That is exactly what I do. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 872 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 10:24 am:    096000 Sound Isolation Membrane if a separate section. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1894 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 11:43 am:    Ron, I can't believe I am saying this, you being a spec god, but I totally disagree with you regarding where to specify Impact Sound Control Underlayment, 096013. It must be included in a dedicated spec section, period. My apologies, Spec God. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 873 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 12:01 pm:    Jerome, With all due respect, I beg to differ. Please remember the principle of a single statement applies to both drawings and specifications. Then changes will be made just once and the likelhood of conflicting information will be eliminated. I did not invent the best practice statement. This is from Design Professional Insurance Carriers (DPIC). This is why there is Division 01. Pre Masterformat, Division 01 requirements were repeated within each technical section. Division 01 did not exist. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1500 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 12:04 pm:    Wayne: 09 60 00 is "Flooring" per MasterFormat. Jerome: I'm NOT a "spec god." Some people on this forum have more specifications experience and skills in their pinkie than I have in total. That said, regarding the location of sound underlayments, the location of spec content is entirely up to the specifier; thus, neither method is wrong. To say it "must" be included in a separate section, however, is wrong. A single flooring material with a sound underlayment can be considered an assembly just like a roofing assembly (do you specify substrate boards, insulation, coverboards, and roof coatings in separate sections when these are applicable?) Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1896 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 12:15 pm:    Ron, of course you are correct, in my work in So Florida all sound control is being signaled out for litigation, so keeping the sound control membrane separate from the finish materials makes for a cleaner defense. Than there are the Acoustical Consultants who get confused when the sound control membrane is included with the finish products. I find its easier to provide a separate spec section. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1897 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 12:40 pm:    Ron, I mean no disrespect, but you for one offer your knowledge to others who wish to learn about specs and materials through your website or seminars, or your posts. Ron, you share. I have learned much from my peers on 4specs, those (spec gods), those who are not, Ralph Leibing was a spec god, though we fought a lot, he was an inspiration. Sadly I have never met most of my friends in CSI, or on this forum, traveling is hard when you are a one man show, and have disabilities, I will probably never meet any of you. So sometimes I add levity, sarcasm, and humor to my posts, perhaps when I kick the bucket a few will remember that specifier from So FL with all the dilemmas...try to search for the word dilemma, I am one of the first posts and than a post from 2007 with Ralph chiming in, that's how you find me, look for a dilemma. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 648 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 01:16 pm:    This is a timely discussion. I have a project type new to me, university student housing, that will include an acoustical membrane in the floor assemblies. Except the type we are using is always paired with a 1-inch layer of self-leveling gypcrete from the same manufacturer. I was going to specify those together as a system because they are marketed as a system. But where? As an underlayment, it could live in 03 54 13.XX for the gypsum cement underlayment part of the assembly. But I hear the siren call of Division 9 too. So probably 09 05 71 it will be. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1899 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 21, 2018 - 01:26 pm:    Steve on HUD work I specify 035413 - Gypsum Cementitious Underlayment which does not work as a sound underlayment without the sound mat. HUD's Reviewer, D3G requested the sound mat be included in one spec section. Of the past 5 HUD projects only one used this system, all the others were designed as a hard flooring over an impact membrane.