Jamb Closures

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Author Message Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: rjray Post Number: 95 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 12:37 pm:    For those that specify membrane jamb closures similar to Hyload Jamb Closure Membrane, where do you usually specify this product? Thanks Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1320 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2012 - 01:04 pm:    Product data sheet shows "Div. 4"--- http://www.hyloadflashing.com/data/TDS-HyloadJambClosureMembrane.pdf Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: rjray Post Number: 96 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:36 am:    Yes it does show Division 4, but what if there isn't any masonry on the project? Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI, CDT Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 1321 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:53 am:    Then, I would think you could use it in a Section that deals with the wall construction [like gyp bd assemblies]. I would think that flexibility is reasonable and not any sort of "black mark" for unauthorized useage. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 522 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 11:58 am:    Ronald, For full disclosuer this is the first time I have heard of this product. I would consider this product as an accessory to the primary air barrier membranne and include in same section. However, air barrier membranes come complete with accessory transition membranes for connecting to head, jamb and sill framing for windows, doors, entrances, storefront and curtian walls for one source compatibilily. Educate me. What are the attributes of this product that make it special for your application? Wayne Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: rjray Post Number: 97 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Friday, May 11, 2012 - 05:22 pm:    Hi Wayne, The product is used to close off the “end” of cavities in cavity wall construction at openings, rather than relying on the sealant joint at both sides of the door/storefront/window/curtain wall frame to seal the cavity. (I can send you details if you provide me your email address.) It is not an accessory provided by the air barrier system manufacturers that I specify. One end of it does “flash” to the air barrier system transition strips, so maybe it would make sense for the air barrier installer to install this product. The issue would be who would install the other end once the exterior skin is installed? ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 234 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, May 14, 2012 - 09:16 am:    It would be a boon to the industry if the air barrier folks, or more flashing folks for that matter, would consider adding a 'jamb flashing' product. This seems like a good first attempt but I'm not terribly impressed; I don't see a mason doin this right and who knows whether the brick or windows go in first. Besides, it still relies on sealants. The detail is iffy at best. A few others have tried but really, other than Tremco, no one has even tried to address this holistically. At least Tremco has attempted to address the transition from wall to window with something other than a sealant joint. Justatim Senior Member Username: justatim Post Number: 36 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 07:27 am:    I can't see how the jamb-flashing product is related to an air barrier. Closing the “end” of cavities in cavity wall construction at openings is outside of the usual location for an air barrier. The air barrier would typically be at the sheathing surface and "flash" to the jambs. A cavity wall usually has many weeps or pressure-equalizing openings. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 235 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 09:30 am:    Jamb closures go toward the entire concept of compartmentalization when discussing pressure equalization. Really, it's easier to manage water in smaller areas so creating manageable portions of the work increases your potential for minimizing leaks. Jamb flashing also helps to isolate those areas of the exterior wall that drain outward from those locations that have avenues open to the interior, such as wall to window interfaces. Keeping water in the drainage planes, whether at opaque (such as cavities) or glazed surfaces (such as curtain wall), without cross-over, reduces the opportunity for leaks by keeping water away from the transitional areas. It goes to the first rule of waterproofing "If the water isn't there, it can't leak in." As to where to specify it, if your project has multiple exterior envelope components, I'd use Section 076000 - Flashing and Sheet Metal. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, CCS, AIA, LEED AP (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 11:08 am:    I would also assume that because of the description, the product will function as a vapor-retarding membrane. I would be careful about using it in conjunction with a "breatheable" air barrier. Also I would be concerned about compatibility with non-bituminous products. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, CCS, AIA, LEED AP (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 11:05 am:    As far as I can tell, this stuff is simply membrane flashing being marketed for a specific application. You can use product by Grace or ProtectoWrap or Carlisle or ... to do the same thing. I have been in discussions with a local guy here in Houston who has developed some patented (OK, patent pending) sheet metal items that are prefabricated and prefinished for use in these applications (brick, stucco and EIFS). Although it looks like a pretty interesting design, I have my doubts about whether it is truly "patentable." Anyway, the company is Coastal Metal Designs, LP. If anyone is interested, contact me and I will send you his contact information. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 524 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 - 11:50 am:    Sheet metal (galvanized) closures have been used in Canada for decades, particulary with curtain walls. At least as far back as 1984 where they are all over the Calgary City Hall. Sheet metal satisfies all the requirements for an air barrier. Tremco Proglaz ETA is a recent example of the new generation of closures for the air barrier membrane across the rough opening gaps and mechanically attached to the aluminum framing. As a Canadian (at least in Alberta), we consider the use of sealants and backer rods to form the closure in these joints as the poor mans method. We are to poor to buy cheap. I am experiencing a classic case of "I told you so". I feel smug. My firm is doing a project in Canada. The technical architects came to me from time to time to ask for air barrier methodologies. Most of what I recommended was ignored. What does the Canadian know? That is not the way we do in the USA. Lucky for me, the client has retained the services of a building envelope consultant reviewing the drawings. They are repeating my recommendations verbatim. I feel validated. Sorry. I had to gloat to someone. Wayne