SIGN OF THE APOCALYPSE

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Author Message Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 466 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 12:23 pm:    An electrical contractor in Whichita KS complained to the Owner they could not bid their project because Division 16 is missing. Owner is now pissed at us. Spec was written under MasterFormat 2004 with electrical in Div 26. We are now waiting for the notice that Div 15 is also missing. There 2 other US stores under construction in the US and 2 scheduled for Canada. Apparently other M&E bidders were able to read the table of contents. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1261 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 12:52 pm:    Maybe you should put out an all-points (construction) bulletin? Or put a "have you seen this division" picture on a beer keg? David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1197 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 02:35 pm:    How about listing this in your table of contents: Division 15 - (Not Used, Refer to Divisions 21, 22 and 23.) Division 16 - (Not Used, Refer to Divisions 25, 26, 27 and 28.) Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1262 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 02:42 pm:    Ya know, if they can't read, they can't read...and do you really want a contractor on your project who can't read? Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 104 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 02:53 pm:    Now, now: lets not discriminate against the functionally illiterate! ;-) Alternately, think of this as an opportunity: you could offer a course on “Remedial Reading”! For a “nominal” fee of course. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1263 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 03:03 pm:    Seriously, I have taught reading to adults. It's not easy...seems there's a time when the human brain learns to read, and if you miss that stage of development, you may never learn to read fluently. (Of course, it could be that the GC didn't give the correct divisions to the subs.) Reminds me that Wednesday we had a lunch 'n' learn in the office and among the sandwiches the presenter provided were some marked "GC". I asked if they were "general contractor", but no, they were "grilled chicken"... Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 105 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 03:24 pm:    Many years ago (“long ago, and far away”?) I was repeatedly questioned by a contractor about a “missing” fixture. He was using this an example of our “incomplete documents”. I pointed them to the appropriate specification section each time. He kept bring up the issue during several conference calls. Eventually, he brought up the “missing” fixture during an onsite project meeting with the Owner while I was onsite. By coincidence, I had a catalogue cut of the model we specified, which showed that there was nothing missing, but that the specified fixture combined several items often specified and supplied separately. I walked through the drawings and specifications and then presented this information. I asked if anyone had checked with the manufacturer or looked at the manufacturers catalogue (this was pre internet for most manufacturers). I then offered to teach a course on “Remedial Reading”. For some reason the contractor and I never developed a warm relationship after that. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1264 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 03:35 pm:    I wonder why? Mayhap your dripping sarcasm was too acidic for him to tolerate? Gosh, that must have been fun. Of course, that is NOT in the spirit of CSI, but we've all probably wanted to do just that at some time. We've got a GC now who wanted to eliminate the vapor barrier in the exterior wall because when we changed cladding systems (a V.E. move), he assumed it was no longer required. He could use the remedial reading class for codes. Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 106 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 04:19 pm:    You are, of course, correct: I could have (and should have) used more temperate language. Then again “Sarcasm R’ Us” could be my motto. It’s been two decades since that event and I have (mostly) learned to keep my “wit” (such as it is) in check. Whether or not someone deserves it (a smart remark) has nothing to do with trying to get something built with the least amount or strife and changes possible. Venting here or with coworkers is much safer. J. Peter Jordan (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, May 27, 2011 - 05:09 pm:    I have been trying to decide what the best course of action would be... I think I would advise the Owner against accepting bids from this sub on the grounds that the firm is not current with industry standards. I have a lot of sympathy with Mr. Whitby, but I advise my clients (architects) that my fee includes enough cynicism for the whole design team at no additional cost. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1183 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 27, 2011 - 07:16 pm:    its pretty easy to get cynical in this business. The first time you see a really dumb error, you just put it down to that contractor, or a bad day... or something. Along about the 16th time you see the SAME dumb mistake, any sense of compassion quickly evaporates. this quote comes to my mind at least once a day (quoted from my former boss, Bob Sears) "I don't care if you're ignorant but if you're going to revel in it, there is no place for you here." (this was said to a designer, but it has so many applications in day to day life.... Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1283 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 09:19 am:    It's amazing how many times I hear it said, with a touch of pride, "I haven't read a book since high school." Really? Sounds like reveling in ignorance to me... Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 110 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, July 28, 2011 - 10:07 am:    Re: "I haven't read a book since high school." Frankly, that attitude gives ignorance a bad name ;-). James M. Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, LEED AP Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 96 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 09:27 am:    In response to my question "Did you read such-and-such book?" I've had more than one (really, more than one) adult (professionals even) tell me "I don't read." Does this mean he never learned how to read, or forgot how to read, or just can't be bothered to enlighten himself? I made a comment once in another thread on this forum about my mythical retirement. In fact, Lynn brought me back to reality by reminding me that no specification writer has ever successfully retired :-) Even so, if I ever do achieve that elusive dream I plan to read 'til my eyes bleed. That's just hyperbole, by the way. I was blessed: My mother gave me my first Hardy Boys book when I was seven. Before too long she had purchased every book in the series. My third grade teacher kept a stack of Classic Comics in the back of the classroom. The reward for finishing one's work and not disturbing the other pupils in the class was to be allowed to sit on a rug in back and read those "comic" books. I told my children more than once as they were growing up, "The ability to read is the key to knowledge and knowledge is power. Power is the ability to determine one's own destiny. "I don't read," indeed. Then how in the world do you THINK? Ellis, you are so right. How could ignorance like that be blissful? Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1286 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 09:57 am:    "Time Enough at Last" - Twilight Zone. Enough to make a reader weep. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1185 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 01:57 pm:    I sort of feel the same way about people who "never read fiction". The reward of those Classic Comics was to allow yourself to get transported by a story. I tutored non-readers for a while and as Lynn mentioned, reading seems like one of those things that you either "get" early or it never sticks. My students were always adults who had some -- but minimal -- reading skills and they wanted to advance to take the GED. I was struck by how small your world gets if you're only limited to your experience or the experience of the people you know -- there's a backlog that you never recover if you're not a reader. the Kindle is the best thing that happened to me -- I no longer have to fill a carry-on with books when I travel. Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 963 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 02:14 pm:    As a kid and young adult, I did not like to read. However, after getting married, my wife, who is an avid reader, got me hooked. Now I read at least a book a month--both fiction and nonfiction. I feel that my increase in reading has improved my writing skills immensely. I encourage my architecture students to read just for that reason. In my opinion, the way you write says a lot about yourself. Clear, logical prose conveys authority and professionalism, while sloppy, disorganized writing does just the opposite. Ron Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1287 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 02:19 pm:    It's not a matter of intelligence, either. One man I tutored was quite savvy. When he had to take a written driving test, he bandaged his hands and told the clerk he had been injured at work and couldn't hold a pencil, but if he would read the questions to him, he'd give his answers orally! He passed. He only drove in areas he knew so he didn't have to read directional signs or street signs. But that's a physical demonstration of the smallness of his world. He was afraid to travel outside his very limited territory. Obviously, not being able to read at all is an extreme that I doubt we'll encounter with general contractors, but many sub-contractors may be impaired by not being able to read - especially English. Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED® AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 111 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, July 29, 2011 - 03:53 pm:    While not being fluent in English can be a problem on site, I think the bigger problem is that so many people in the trades (and to my dismay also in the professions) read narrowly. By “narrowly” I mean that they may read the sports page and even the latest best selling thriller, but they are not even keeping up with the professional literature, let alone reading widely: history, science, international news, etc. And we wonder why the average American cannot distinguish fact from fiction when they get their science education from “Terminators” and their history lessons from “"Cowboys & Aliens". And while I am on a rant: Even if the project manual is read, it is often read only to develop claims, not to understand the design intent. Now BIM is being used the same way: all conflicts are claims in the making.