Moisture mitagation in concrete floors

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Author Message David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1168 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 04:58 pm:    What section name and number would I use for epoxy moisture barriers for concrete substrates? The product I am specifying is a topical treatment over concrete slabs and under resilient flooring. This product prevents flooring failure from excessive moisture migration. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1223 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 05:15 pm:    I've used 09 6105 Vapor Emission and Alkalinity Control System. Ron Beard CCS Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 378 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 05:50 pm:    If excessive moisture migration is a known, wouldn't a covering mfr. not warrant their product even if a topical coating is applied? "Fast is good, but accurate is better." .............Wyatt Earp Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 47 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 05:51 pm:    I have used: 09 6116 Vapor-Control Flooring Treatment. John Hunter Senior Member Username: johnhunter Post Number: 86 Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 - 06:07 pm:    We've used 09 6105 Water Vapor Control for Flooring Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 1224 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 09:04 am:    Ron, you're right; that's why these moisture/alkalinity mitigation products exist. They guarantee the flooring installation for up to 15 years. Once they are applied, the tests yield results that are within the flooring manufacturer's requirements. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 466 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 06:46 pm:    We submitted 09 05 61.13 Moisture Control Preparation for Flooring to the MF Maintenance Committee for the various moisture/alkalinity control applications. They denied the request, indicating that 09 05 61 Common Work Results for Flooring Preparation was adequate for specifying these work results. No harm in producing a custom section with user-assigned number. Because the 09 60 XX numbers address specific types of flooring, all of which may be installed over a moisture-control-prepared slab, there isn't a logical place for these work results. I think the 09 05 61 location is more appropriate. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 - 08:03 pm:    The manufacturers of these products often suggest multiple locations in Division 3, 7 and 9. Once in a project with the SEOR the lead and the Architect their consultant, I saw it wedged uncomfortably into the Cast-in-Place Concrete Section. When we first started using the 2004 MasterFormat, our office created a home brew 07 26 20 number that put if right after our below slab vapor retarder Section in the spec book. Soon after, I adopted 09 05 20 as a good location for a common work results item referenced to as many floor finish spec Section that you might have. Finally, if you have only one floor finish spec Section and were looking for small project brevity, you could always paste it into the flooring spec. In many of our projects the sub for the resilient flooring seem to also have the moisture testing and remediation work too. I'm not sure if that is the fox watching the hen house or the hen house watching the fox. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1309 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, April 05, 2011 - 09:36 pm:    I've used a similarly numbered Division 09 section, but coupled it with Division 01 temporary requirements regarding temporary procedures needed to control moisture in the building and on the slab. This includes such things as controlling water entry to the building. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 418 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 12:00 am:    When I was writing specs for my last firm, I normally put the moisture vapor emissions mitigation material in Division 03. I put the testing procedures for moisture vapor emissions in Division 09. My reason for doing this was that the Quality Control/Testing section in Division 01 was primarily for DSA (CA Division of the State Architect) Structural Testing & Inspection requirements. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 384 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 01:19 am:    Even though you have a section in Division 1 dealing with Testing and Inspection you should still address the specific tests in each of the technical sections. A general reference to comply with the special inspection provisions in the code does not always provide enough information. Cast-in-place concrete section should define information such as water cement ratio and limits on curing that are important to minimize time to dry out the slab but I would address the vapor emissions testing in the section dealing with the floor treatment or covering. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 269 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Thursday, April 14, 2011 - 04:05 pm:    We specify the requirement for slab moisture vapor emmission and pH testing in each individual Section that specifies flooring that might be sensitive to the effects of moisture (I think we could forego it for dimensional stone). This takes the form in each flooring Spec Section of a bullet item in the Part 1 "Summary", a definition of test standards with ASTM standard references in Part 1 "Quality Assurance" and detailed test procedures in Part 3 "Examination". I try not to list a value but instead refer to the flooring manufacturer's criteria because these can be slippery. We once had a weird situation where a flooring manufacturer was willing to lower their criteria in writing to keep the contract. More common are flooring products that are equal in every way except they reference different slab moisture test procedures in the product data. In the Part 3 testing procedures we include direction that "for tested floors that fail to meet the manufacturer's criteria refer to XX XX XX for remedial floor repair procedures". In this format, the Section for the moisture vapor emissions mitigation material isn't the location that specifies that the testing take place, rather only where you go when you find you have a problem. The scope of work being unknown, we call for a unit price or on occasion an Allowance.