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Jerry Tims
Senior Member
Username: jtims

Post Number: 33
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 03:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

OK....I'm asking this question purely because I'm curious. Now that many of you have, or are in the process of switching over to MF04, I'm curious to know what section numbering format you're using. In other words, is rough carpentry in Section 061000, Section 06 10 00 or Section 06 1000?

For our first few jobs, I used the XX XX XX format, but I've since changed to the XX XXXX format. Why? Simply to make it easier to say. Instead of identifying it as zero six, ten, zero zero, I find it easier to say zero six, one thousand. Plus it's easier to explain to the office naysayers who didn't think we should have left MF95, by telling the 06 identifies the division, and the one thousand identifies the location within the division. I know it's hogwash....but it worked! :-)
Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI
Senior Member
Username: rliebing

Post Number: 905
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 03:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Willing to bet that no matter the written format, the shortened phonetics are used in expressing or conveying them verbally

Oh,six, one-thousand

Oh,nine,seven-twenty-three

Oh, nine, nine-one hundred
Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP
Senior Member
Username: redseca2

Post Number: 135
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 03:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

We started with XX XX XX, but I have come to prefer the XX XXXX format.

I am not jumping on switching right now because we still have long-lived projects in the old XXXXX format and two formats on the boards at once is enough.
Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski

Post Number: 796
Registered: 07-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XXXX in this office, unless requested to be different by the lead on the project.
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin

Post Number: 205
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XX XX for all my specs
David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: davidcombs

Post Number: 291
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XX XX for all projects nationwide, and all consultants working on those projects.
Robert W. Johnson
Senior Member
Username: bob_johnson

Post Number: 173
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XX XX for all specs.
George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: geverding

Post Number: 446
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 05:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XXXX, unless we are not the lead on the project. And only six places, no decimals.

Is anyone right of the decimal point for sections? We elected drop the decimal from sections with decimals. May I assume most of you are in agreement?
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan

Post Number: 290
Registered: 05-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 05:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XX XX unless otherwise specifically instructed (yes I am still dealing with MF88 or earlier).
Bob Woodburn, RA CSI CCS CCCA LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: bwoodburn

Post Number: 265
Registered: 01-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 05:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Then there's the United Facilities Guide Specifications (NASA/DoD) system, in which some sections get 10 digits: XX XX XX.XX XX
D. Marshall Fryer, CSI, Assoc. AIA
Senior Member
Username: dmfryer

Post Number: 67
Registered: 09-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 05:54 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

When I have a choice, its XX-XXXX, with a hyphen instead of a space to keep the two parts visually tied together. This also facilitates clear page numbering, as XX-XXXX-X instead of XX XX XX - X. No level four decimals for me either.
Jerry Tims
Senior Member
Username: jtims

Post Number: 34
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 06:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I use decimals only when I need to. Case in point. We do lots of recreation centers that may have 2 or 3 types of resilient athletic flooring, so I'll use the decimals (.01, .02, .03) to differentiate the various types, especially if there are enough differences to warrant an individual section for each type.
Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman

Post Number: 673
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 06:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XX XX

I do use level 4 numbering (decimals) when I feel it is necessary.
Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP
Senior Member
Username: redseca2

Post Number: 136
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 06:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Quote - Is anyone right of the decimal point for sections?

We are not ourselves, but we have had MEP consultants stick a couple into their Divisions without asking as a surprise.

For at least one client, who insists on a very wonky TOC format, the 8 digit numbering puts the entire entry out of alignment with the rest of the page.
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe

Post Number: 323
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 11:25 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

xx-xxxx. No decimals, but some of the assigned numbers make it difficult.
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin

Post Number: 206
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I use the decimal point numbers, but probably not in the way they are intended. On some of my large projects, I will get several versions of the same section for different parts of the building, from different consultant for example, door hardware. So, I might assign 087110.01, 087110.02 etc. I have seen consultants use it once in awhile as well.
Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: don_harris

Post Number: 202
Registered: 03-2003
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 07:51 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XX XX
I have never used decimals. 09 21 16.23 Gypsum Board Shaft Wall Assemblies is 09 21 19. This was always my pet peeve with MF04. There is so much room between 09 21 13 and 09 22 00 that level 4 is just not necessary, except for philosophical reasons which I think I understand, but choose to disregard. Excuse me while I hide from the MasterFormat police. :-)
Philip R. Carpenter AIA
Senior Member
Username: philip_carpenter

Post Number: 20
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 02:31 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XXXX

we like how the division number stands out with this format
Rebecca C. Werman, CCS (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I have been using XXXXXX and never use decimals.
Tracy Van Niel, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: tracy_van_niel

Post Number: 261
Registered: 04-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 02:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

xx xx xx, the numbers are harder to read in either of the other formats (xx xxxx or xxxxxx).

And for numbers that might wrap around on a paragraph, just do Ctrl-Shift-Spacebar (in Word)for the space between the sets of numbers and it keeps them together.
Leon Ruch, RA, CSI, CCS (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 03:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XXXX, where the space is a 6-point nonbreaking space (thank goodness for macros). So far we have avoided the need for decimals, though some consultants try to sneak them in.
Dale Hurttgam, NCARB, AIA,LEED AP, CSI
Senior Member
Username: dwhurttgam

Post Number: 36
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 06:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Have not switched - however, our preference when we do is xx xxxx. Feel that it easier to work with when the Division stands out.
Phil Kabza
Senior Member
Username: phil_kabza

Post Number: 331
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 09:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XXXXXX in all the work I do. I don't get the spaces obsession. I can't bother explaining it to clients. They don't care. Neither do I. I'm interested in specification content, not spaces and digits and macros. Getting old, I guess.
Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA
Senior Member
Username: tsugaguy

Post Number: 160
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 08:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

same here. on rare occasion the extra spaces actually caused alignment or spacing problems so I just decided to get used to 6 digits together - surprisingly, now 5 digit numbers just look strangely short.
Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA
Senior Member
Username: tsugaguy

Post Number: 161
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 08:35 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

...except I'm still into macros though
David J. Wyatt
Senior Member
Username: david_j_wyatt_csi_ccs_ccca

Post Number: 117
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 09:22 am:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

XX XX XX

Although with some clients I have to speak a little more s l o w l y. In those cases it is

X X X X X X

<:-)
W. Dean Walker, AIA, CCS, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: wdwalkerspecs

Post Number: 31
Registered: 08-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 02:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

I like Phil use XXXXXX in all the work I do. See no reason to put spaces in. I also work with many small civil, landscaping and engineering firms that are still using the 5 digit number system and refuse to switch. In the interest in getting the project none I just use a blended system. Also the majority of the civil and landscaping consultants my clients use still have all of their sections in Division 2 and I'm not paid to change the numbers, so I just call Division 02 - Existing Conditions and Site Work. It works great and my buildings get built without confusion. Its impossible to explain to clients. They don't care. Neither do I. I'm interested in specification content, not spaces, digits and whether my projects are "pure" CSI 2004 Format. An Phil - I'm already old.
Harold Kiewel, aia, csi, ccs (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 03:51 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Maybe I'm old fashioined or maybe just old but, I'm finding ## ## ## and ###### hard to remember.

I'm thinking about going to ####-## or ####.##

The first four digits define (in former CSI lingo) broad or medium scope subjects. For example 0713## is Sheet Waterproofing. Then digits 5 and 6 refine the topic (0713-26 is Sheet Waterproofing - Self Adhered).

One advantage to this is, a lot of the 4-digit prefixes haven't changed from '95. Another is there's a one-to-one relationship between the number and subject matter.
Kenneth Dunn, CSI, CCS, LEED AP (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 10:26 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostPrint Post

Am in the process of converting our office to 2004, and am using the XX XXXX format without decimals.

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