What's your format?

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Author Message Jerry Tims Senior Member Username: jtims Post Number: 33 Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 03:04 pm:    OK....I'm asking this question purely because I'm curious. Now that many of you have, or are in the process of switching over to MF04, I'm curious to know what section numbering format you're using. In other words, is rough carpentry in Section 061000, Section 06 10 00 or Section 06 1000? For our first few jobs, I used the XX XX XX format, but I've since changed to the XX XXXX format. Why? Simply to make it easier to say. Instead of identifying it as zero six, ten, zero zero, I find it easier to say zero six, one thousand. Plus it's easier to explain to the office naysayers who didn't think we should have left MF95, by telling the 06 identifies the division, and the one thousand identifies the location within the division. I know it's hogwash....but it worked! Ralph Liebing, RA, CSI Senior Member Username: rliebing Post Number: 905 Registered: 02-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 03:20 pm:    Willing to bet that no matter the written format, the shortened phonetics are used in expressing or conveying them verbally Oh,six, one-thousand Oh,nine,seven-twenty-three Oh, nine, nine-one hundred Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 135 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 03:20 pm:    We started with XX XX XX, but I have come to prefer the XX XXXX format. I am not jumping on switching right now because we still have long-lived projects in the old XXXXX format and two formats on the boards at once is enough. Lynn Javoroski CSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 796 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:21 pm:    XX XXXX in this office, unless requested to be different by the lead on the project. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 205 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:31 pm:    XX XX XX for all my specs David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 291 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:34 pm:    XX XX XX for all projects nationwide, and all consultants working on those projects. Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: bob_johnson Post Number: 173 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 04:39 pm:    XX XX XX for all specs. George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 446 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 05:44 pm:    XX XXXX, unless we are not the lead on the project. And only six places, no decimals. Is anyone right of the decimal point for sections? We elected drop the decimal from sections with decimals. May I assume most of you are in agreement? J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 290 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 05:44 pm:    XX XX XX unless otherwise specifically instructed (yes I am still dealing with MF88 or earlier). Bob Woodburn, RA CSI CCS CCCA LEED AP Senior Member Username: bwoodburn Post Number: 265 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 05:52 pm:    Then there's the United Facilities Guide Specifications (NASA/DoD) system, in which some sections get 10 digits: XX XX XX.XX XX D. Marshall Fryer, CSI, Assoc. AIA Senior Member Username: dmfryer Post Number: 67 Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 05:54 pm:    When I have a choice, its XX-XXXX, with a hyphen instead of a space to keep the two parts visually tied together. This also facilitates clear page numbering, as XX-XXXX-X instead of XX XX XX - X. No level four decimals for me either. Jerry Tims Senior Member Username: jtims Post Number: 34 Registered: 04-2005 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 06:04 pm:    I use decimals only when I need to. Case in point. We do lots of recreation centers that may have 2 or 3 types of resilient athletic flooring, so I'll use the decimals (.01, .02, .03) to differentiate the various types, especially if there are enough differences to warrant an individual section for each type. Ronald L. Geren, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 673 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 06:08 pm:    XX XX XX I do use level 4 numbering (decimals) when I feel it is necessary. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 136 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 06:08 pm:    Quote - Is anyone right of the decimal point for sections? We are not ourselves, but we have had MEP consultants stick a couple into their Divisions without asking as a surprise. For at least one client, who insists on a very wonky TOC format, the 8 digit numbering puts the entire entry out of alignment with the rest of the page. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 323 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Tuesday, September 09, 2008 - 11:25 pm:    xx-xxxx. No decimals, but some of the assigned numbers make it difficult. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 206 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 12:47 am:    I use the decimal point numbers, but probably not in the way they are intended. On some of my large projects, I will get several versions of the same section for different parts of the building, from different consultant for example, door hardware. So, I might assign 087110.01, 087110.02 etc. I have seen consultants use it once in awhile as well. Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: don_harris Post Number: 202 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 07:51 am:    XX XX XX I have never used decimals. 09 21 16.23 Gypsum Board Shaft Wall Assemblies is 09 21 19. This was always my pet peeve with MF04. There is so much room between 09 21 13 and 09 22 00 that level 4 is just not necessary, except for philosophical reasons which I think I understand, but choose to disregard. Excuse me while I hide from the MasterFormat police. :-) Philip R. Carpenter AIA Senior Member Username: philip_carpenter Post Number: 20 Registered: 08-2008 Posted on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 02:31 pm:    XX XXXX we like how the division number stands out with this format Rebecca C. Werman, CCS (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 11:05 am:    I have been using XXXXXX and never use decimals. Tracy Van Niel, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: tracy_van_niel Post Number: 261 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 02:32 pm:    xx xx xx, the numbers are harder to read in either of the other formats (xx xxxx or xxxxxx). And for numbers that might wrap around on a paragraph, just do Ctrl-Shift-Spacebar (in Word)for the space between the sets of numbers and it keeps them together. Leon Ruch, RA, CSI, CCS (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 03:46 pm:    XX XXXX, where the space is a 6-point nonbreaking space (thank goodness for macros). So far we have avoided the need for decimals, though some consultants try to sneak them in. Dale Hurttgam, NCARB, AIA,LEED AP, CSI Senior Member Username: dwhurttgam Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2005 Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 06:36 pm:    Have not switched - however, our preference when we do is xx xxxx. Feel that it easier to work with when the Division stands out. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 331 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Thursday, September 11, 2008 - 09:39 pm:    XXXXXX in all the work I do. I don't get the spaces obsession. I can't bother explaining it to clients. They don't care. Neither do I. I'm interested in specification content, not spaces and digits and macros. Getting old, I guess. Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 160 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 08:33 am:    same here. on rare occasion the extra spaces actually caused alignment or spacing problems so I just decided to get used to 6 digits together - surprisingly, now 5 digit numbers just look strangely short. Christopher E. Grimm, CSI, CCS, LEEDŽ-AP, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 161 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 08:35 am:    ...except I'm still into macros though David J. Wyatt Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_csi_ccs_ccca Post Number: 117 Registered: 07-2005 Posted on Friday, September 12, 2008 - 09:22 am:    XX XX XX Although with some clients I have to speak a little more s l o w l y. In those cases it is X X X X X X < W. Dean Walker, AIA, CCS, SCIP Senior Member Username: wdwalkerspecs Post Number: 31 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 02:58 pm:    I like Phil use XXXXXX in all the work I do. See no reason to put spaces in. I also work with many small civil, landscaping and engineering firms that are still using the 5 digit number system and refuse to switch. In the interest in getting the project none I just use a blended system. Also the majority of the civil and landscaping consultants my clients use still have all of their sections in Division 2 and I'm not paid to change the numbers, so I just call Division 02 - Existing Conditions and Site Work. It works great and my buildings get built without confusion. Its impossible to explain to clients. They don't care. Neither do I. I'm interested in specification content, not spaces, digits and whether my projects are "pure" CSI 2004 Format. An Phil - I'm already old. Harold Kiewel, aia, csi, ccs (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 03:51 pm:    Maybe I'm old fashioined or maybe just old but, I'm finding ## ## ## and ###### hard to remember. I'm thinking about going to ####-## or ####.## The first four digits define (in former CSI lingo) broad or medium scope subjects. For example 0713## is Sheet Waterproofing. Then digits 5 and 6 refine the topic (0713-26 is Sheet Waterproofing - Self Adhered). One advantage to this is, a lot of the 4-digit prefixes haven't changed from '95. Another is there's a one-to-one relationship between the number and subject matter. Kenneth Dunn, CSI, CCS, LEED AP (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, September 16, 2008 - 10:26 pm:    Am in the process of converting our office to 2004, and am using the XX XXXX format without decimals.