MasterFormat subscription service?

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Author Message David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 451 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 01:35 pm:    Did I hear correctly at the CSI Show that CSI was going to start, if they have not already, a subscription service for MasterFormat. Can someone please explain how it would work? I also heard that the MasterFormat '04 provided in our conference bags (which was nice) is already out of date and that the CSInet.org website has the latest edition. Can someone please comment on that as well? Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 132 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 01:41 pm:    I don't recall getting MasterFormat 2004 in our conference bags. That was a disk from BSD SpecLink, who sponsored the bags. I also don't specifcally recall about a subscription service, but I do recall that MasterFormat will be updated on a more regular basis and that updates could be available by subscription. About MasterFormat being out of date, they did say in the instructor course that the list of numbers and titles on the CD-ROM (included with the printed copy of MF2004, and available on the CSI website) is actually more current than the printed copy (a victim of printing deadlines, obviously) Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: bob_johnson Post Number: 29 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 02:16 pm:    CSI does have plans to establish an updating service - the details are in the process of being worked out - will probably be some sort of electronic access subscription service - will probably include a central point to make suggestions for additions and revisions which will be considered by a expert panel - again the services and how it will operate will be announced later. The printed document and accompanying CD-ROM are not out of date - they are the most up-to-date info. There were a few minor revisions to the list that was first put on the CSI website in June, 2004 - they were provided as errata information on the website in August and November, 2004. A final corrected version including the corrections with the Novemember, 2004 date is also on the website - that document clearly states at the beginning as follows: "The numbers and titles presented here are identical to the numbers and titles presented in the full MasterFormat 2004 publication available for purchase from CSI and CSC." The website thus includes the corrections to the June, 2004 list in August and November of 2004, and a November, 2004 version including the correcdtions. The latest information on the website and the information in the published document and CD-ROM are the same. Nothing is out-of-date. Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 133 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 02:22 pm:    Make sure Michael Chambers knows that. He's the one who mentioned it at the instructor course in Chicago. Melissa Aguiar, CSI, CDT, SCIP Senior Member Username: melissaaguiar Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 02:29 pm:    I remember Mr. Chambers and also Mr. Hall discussing exactly what Mr. Johnson has just stated in detail at the Chicago convention. I think he (Mr. Chambers) is one of them that will be on top of the happenings of Masterformat 2004. David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 42 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 03:43 pm:    It may be possible / I suspect that what Michael Chambers may have meant by his reference to the version on the website being more current than the one on CD, he was referring to the CD that accompanied the PROJECT RESOURCE MANUAL - MOP, not the CD that accompanied the MasterFormat '04 publication. Not sure exactly when it hit the streets, but I received my PRM in October, and there was a subsequent errata published on the website in November. (The CD included with the PRM is level 2 Numbers and Titles only, not the full version of MasterFormat.) This scenario does not seem to contradict Mr. Johnson's posting above. Nor Mr. Chanber's statement at the instructor training session. Mystery solved, perhaps? Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: bob_johnson Post Number: 30 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 04:25 pm:    Good point David. The CD-ROM that came with the Project Resource Manual (PRM) was out-of-date because the PRM was on the street before the MasterFormat was finally completed in November. That may well have been what Michael was referring to. I did alert Michael to this thread by email. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 452 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 04:52 pm:    Ronald, There should have been a complete MasterFormat '04 in you conference bag. This went along with the whole theme of the show which was "The New World of MasterFormat". Did anybody else not get a MF'04? Ronald L. Geren, RA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 134 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 04:59 pm:    I've been robbed! Apparently I didn't say "thank you" nicely enough to the person handing them out. Oh well, at least I received one at the Accredited Instructor Course. Robert: That may have been what Michael was referring to. But, I could have sworn he meant the MF2004 book. Either way, the correct information is out there. Thanks! Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 187 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 05:13 pm:    the handing out of the MF04 was sort of... badly organized. You had to get your name checked off so that you didn't get more than one of them, and there wasn't always someone at the booth who was there to do that. You might ask them nicely via email and mention both your attendence and that you didn't get the entire package.. Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: bob_johnson Post Number: 31 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 05:18 pm:    I think the reason you didn't get one in your bag is because you got one with the course - I didn't get one in my bag either, I think it was because I had received one earlier as a member of the task team - the people in the booth giving them out were checking against a list - my name wasn't on the list. I don't know if that is the situation for sure, but I think they were limiting people to one free copy. David R. Combs, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: davidcombs Post Number: 44 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 05:45 pm:    Ron, It may depend on when you stopped at the booth to get your tote bag. I stopped there on Tuesday morning (before the MF seminar) and they had not yet arrived (I believe someone said they were still boxed up and sitting at the loading dock, awaiting delivery to the show floor). When I went back later during the lunch break, the books had arrived and had already been inserted into the bags. From what I undedrstand, there was one for each person who signed up for full Education Program registration (none for 'Exhibit Hall only' registrants). They were, in fact, checking badges to ensure they only distributed to those on the list. So if you did not get one, they should have a record of it, by virtue of the fact that your name had not been crossed off (assuming they kept the list, that is). And the distribution seems to have been totally independent of the MF Seminar, since I received one for each circumstance. Anne Whitacre, CCS CSI Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 189 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 06:12 pm:    yep, me too. (I got one free copy and one from the course) Marc Chavez and I shipped our total of 4 free copies back to Seattle and the box weighed 47 pounds after adding in the tote bags and some miscellaneous other paper stuff. Dennis Hall (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 - 08:54 pm:    Bob is absolutly correct as usual with his statements regarding the proposed subscription service. This is in discussion as a part of a proposed MasterFormat Maintenance Task Team. The goal is to make MasterFormat a living document and update it on a periodic basis that better keeps pace with changes in the industry and allows user input into the document. Many of the processes the MFETT set forth in the development of the document to attract wide industry input will continue and be expanded. ASHRAE has established a ongoing technical committee to make recommendations on HVAC stuff in MasterFormat and we are encouraging other industry groups to do the same. Sorry about the confusion with the delivery of MasterFormat to all Convention attendees. If you believe you are do a book and did not receive one, please let me know and I will make sure that we live up to our committment to our membership and Convention attendees. While I do not have authority to do a lot, I am "outspoken" in my committment to do the right thing. Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 136 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 01:41 pm:    I thought that only those who pre-registered for the Education Program by the Early Bird date received the hard copy MF2004 in their bags. Dennis Hall (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, May 11, 2005 - 05:33 pm:    Helaine is correct, only those who pre-registered for the full educational program were to get the free MasterFormat. But there was a lot of confusion, both with Convention attendees and with the temporary staff handing out the books. Some folks that were not suppose to get them demand books and got them and some that were suppose to get them did not because we ran out. Everyone who has contacted me to date, will be sent a book. I believe that CSI should do the right thing by our membership and the Institute agrees. After this point, getting a free book for Convention attandence will be a lot more difficult. Dennis Hall (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, May 12, 2005 - 05:24 pm:    I have corresponded with Teresa Sullivan on Institute staff and she will be happy to ensure that any member who got missed with the MasterFormat give-away program is properly dealt with. This is not a green light for a free-for-all. Names will be checked to ensure you at least attended the Convention and you did not get your copy. This is a limited time offer until her generosity runs out. So, it you missed the boat at the Convention, your ship has come in again. Jump on now because the ship is leaving for Las Vegas. Hope to see you all there. Doug Frank FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: doug_frank_ccs Post Number: 106 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 12:02 pm:    in the June issue of Specifier, page 69, is an advertisement for a CSI MasterFormat 2004 Online Subscription Service. Nowhere in the ad is CSI mentioned; some outfit called "IHS"? Does anyone know if this is the "Official" CSI-Sponsored subscription service? Susan McClendon Senior Member Username: susan_mcclendon Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 01:43 pm:    IHS is what we used to know as Information Handling Services. They are a reseller of standards documents -- their primary service used to be microfiche and microfilm. What they are offering in that ad is purchase of Masterformat from them. IHS has a lot of different subscription packages, in which "subscription" really means a package deal for lots of standards for a single annual fee. I have an inquiry in to them as to what it costs and what you get. But I would surmise that it would be less expensive to buy it from CSI because IHS has to mark documents up unless the author permits them otherwise. I would guess that what CSI means by subscription involves advance purchase of updates that are scheduled on a regular basis much shorter than the traditional 5 or 6 year cycle. Curt Norton, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: curtn Post Number: 91 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 01:55 pm:    Take a look at the press release on their website http://www.ihs.com/news/press-releases/05-csi-masterformat.html Helaine K. Robinson CCS Senior Member Username: hollyrob Post Number: 161 Registered: 07-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 09, 2005 - 05:01 pm:    Somebody saw this tag line at the bottom of an email from the Institute: Get a bigger bang for your buck! Join CSI and get your membership AND MasterFormat 2004 Edition for just $275. Visit http://www.csinet.org/joincsi. CSI dues will increase July 1, so hurry. Offer good through June 30, 2005. Allow 2-3 weeks for delivery. Susan McClendon Senior Member Username: susan_mcclendon Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2005 Posted on Friday, June 10, 2005 - 04:51 pm:    I just got off the phone with IHS. The Masterformat subscription service offered in the Specifier ad and at http://aec.ihs.com apparently is the "subscription service" that CSI intends (intended?) to establish. According to what CSI told IHS, they intend to publish updates several times a year. The subscription cost is $150 and includes the updates. I told IHS I would wait and see whether any updates come out ;>) since I already have 2 copies ;>). Now all we need is an announcement from CSI ;>). Dennis Hall (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - 03:54 pm:    Boy, this is news to me! According to the current MasterFormat business plan, (to be approved by the Board this week) sells of the subscription service is not scheduled to start until March 1, 2006 and the first update is scheduled for June 30, 2006. I have not heard of any pricing. I will have more word on this after the Board meeting. Dennis Hall (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 09:38 pm:    Okay, here are the facts. The subscription service Susan cited is for major users that want to subscribe to put user MasterFormat on a wide-area network. This is NOT the update service. That is on schedule per my prior posting. Richard L. Hird P.E. CCS Senior Member Username: dick_hird Post Number: 29 Registered: 02-2004 Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 10:13 pm:    Major user or minor user! Masterformat 04 is out of the closet. It is not about needed updates, it’s about making a buck for a few people in on the “Business Plan” Dennis Hall (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 01:12 pm:    Wrong Richard! The MasterFormat business plan for updating is about: 1. Establishing a task team from all MasterFormat users 2. Establishing update proceedures 3. Solicit input for the update from members, product manufacturers, and professional and industry user groups 4. Review input, make discisions, and send to publisher 5. Establish subscription service Any money made off MasterFormat and other technical documents goes into the coffers to keep dues low and pay for other services that WE as members use. Chris Grimm, RLA, CDT, MAI, CSI Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 19 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 11:39 am:    Any news on the timeframe for this? I can hardly wait!!! Wish I could have under my Christmas tree. David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 575 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 12:09 pm:    Chris, Dennis does not frequent this forum anymore. He quit in a huff. Margaret G. Chewning FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: presbspec Post Number: 79 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 12:16 pm:    Dennis isn't the only one from the MFTT that keeps up with this forum. Hopefully we will hear from them. Plus I suspect (hope) he is still lurking out there. There is too much good stuff here to hold a grudge. Robert W. Johnson Senior Member Username: bob_johnson Post Number: 63 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Friday, November 04, 2005 - 01:10 pm:    The last information I had was that the first review was to be completed by Spring, 2006 and the first update to be published by Summer, 2006. I have not seen an announcement yet of how the program is being specifically set up, who to contact, and how to paricipate in the process. Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, MAI, RLA Senior Member Username: tsugaguy Post Number: 50 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Saturday, October 14, 2006 - 09:43 pm:    It is here !!! (subscription service? or update service? I'm not sure which...) www.masterformat.com on the Transition Guide page, you can type in MF95#'s and watch it immediately pull up matching MF04#'s. Tell all your friends and watch them gawk in amazement! If you give an email address and contact info, you can also have access to extended features including "propose a revision" (free at least for now). David Axt, AIA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 810 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 05:43 pm:    I really like the MasterFormat on line. I am trying to use it more often and have recommended it to my firm's staff and consultants. I really like the idea of having a way of proposing revisions or additions. This can only help MasterFormat get better and better!