Section numbering rant

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Author Message Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 664 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 10:09 am:    Issued three projects this week where some of the consultant specifications came in with the "3 pairs" spaced section numbers in the file names. We either send them back for correction, or use a bulk software to correct them ourselves, so that our composite PDFs arrange themselves in proper order. It seemed really egalitarian for CSI to promulgate MasterFormat back in 2004 with options for section numbering formats. Now, frankly, it does not. For specification consultants with multiple clients each of whom have multiple consultants, the failure of CSI to promote a single section numbering protocol now looks foolish. We really have better things to do here than to spend our time on clerical level tasks. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA SpecGuy Specifications Consultants www.SpecGuy.com phil@specguy.com Brian Payne Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 218 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 10:44 am:    I agree. We use XX XXXX, but I'd be willing to change to a single standard if promoted. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 665 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 11:12 am:    I don't have strong feelings about the format of numbers within the sections, although I favor xxxxxx overall. I also am not so thoroughly OCD to feel that the number format within sections must be the same throughout the Project Manual; I'm certain different numbering formats will not result in buildings falling down. But we need to get a handle on section filenames. We work with around 8 architect firms. Counting their typical consultant array, that is 8 X 6 = 48 firms writing specs. Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA SpecGuy Specifications Consultants www.SpecGuy.com phil@specguy.com Rosa Cheney Senior Member Username: rdcaia Post Number: 17 Registered: 07-2018 Posted on Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 12:58 pm:    For file name changing, we use Winsome File Renamer. It's $20 software, one time fee. For that price, it has an impressive array of file renaming functions. I probably only use a tenth of its functionality. It only takes a few clicks to correct file names - so they're all caps or title case, or you can use find/replace or delete functions to get rid of weird dates at the end of the file, or to clean up errant spaces or dashes. It also has the ability to delete the 'first' or 'up to so many' occurrences of a thing, so we use that feature to clean up those added spaces in the section number. We care about the consultant file naming because it affects the Table of Contents listings (automatically grabbed from file names) and the format of the PDF bookmarks in our compiled PDF deliverables. We have gotten better and better about requesting consultant/engineer files to be named the way we want, but they still don't always get it right. Oh, and the file renamer comes in super handy when you have to name individual files a certain way - like for government projects or for some jurisdictions' permit requirements. For some government work, we've had to add about 16 special characters representing submission date and project name/location, etc etc, to the end of each file, and different for every stage of the project. We go ahead and do the file renaming for the consultants using this software, rather than having them try to do it themselves. FWIW, I too favor XXXXXX. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 12:50 pm:    Just had a project where A/E griped about wide margins that created a 2K pp. project manual...blaming the wide margins for adding pages. Regardless of not commenting on sample format I sent long before! So the building won't collapse under the extra weight of a 2K pp. project manual...I hope? David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 329 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 02:55 pm:    Phil, I understand. But remember: If we solve all of the problems, we will not have anything to do. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 666 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Wednesday, July 01, 2020 - 03:10 pm:    Rosa: Thank you for the tip. We have a freeware bulk re-naming software that bails us out in a pinch. We'll look into your suggestion. Phil Kabza FCSI CCS AIA SpecGuy Specifications Consultants www.SpecGuy.com phil@specguy.com Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 540 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, July 03, 2020 - 05:58 pm:    Hey! It is Independence Day. Doesn't the inalienable right to the pursuit of happiness include the right to number spec sections any way you feel like it. Next thing we know, you will be saying I don't have a right to shout "fire" in a crowded theater just for fun. Or that I don't have a right to breath my pathogens into your face even though my personal feelings about masks are more important than public health. So much for my rant. I am all in favor of the industry selecting one method.... as long as you all do it my way. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru An (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, July 06, 2020 - 11:37 am:    Perhaps I'm in an easier position working in-house. If the consultants don't name their files the way I've instructed them, I send them back. More accurately, I tell the project team to send them back. Because I'm in house I can help the project team understand that I don't have the time to do the clerical tasks. I do suspect that sometimes the project team handles it themselves rather than sending it back to the consultant, but if I hear about that I tell them not to. We've given very clear instructions about how we want their files delivered to us. Their failure to follow those instructions should not equal us wasting our time to make it correct. I'm a big proponent of holding consultants accountable for following the instructions ... otherwise, they'll continue to assume we don't really care whether they follow the instructions or not. The same should be said for holding the GC accountable to following the contract documents as well. I tell teams to hold a firm line early in the project when it comes to things like submittals being incomplete, or frivolous RFIs. If you set the tone early, and don't give in, they quickly get it and find a way to follow the directions. As for the format of the numbering. I prefer no spaces (xxxxxx). I typically only deviate from that if the client has instructed us to. It would be easier to enforce if CSI would simply get behind one format, but I'm not losing any sleep over it. Probably because of my willingness to simply send something back to the consultant to fix. On the other hand, if CSI came out with MasterFormat 2020 and indicated that there is only one numbering format ... I'd guess it wouldn't change much overnight. How long did it take some firms (or clients) to get behind MF04 numbering and give up MF95? Some still haven't converted. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 1049 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2020 - 05:14 pm:    I've used Advanced Renamer for years. It's amazing! www.advancedrenamer.com/ xx-xxxx Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP Senior Member Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip Post Number: 526 Registered: 02-2014 Posted on Thursday, July 23, 2020 - 04:52 am:    Advanced Renamer is great. Also VisiSpecs handles this very well when importing others’ specs. Anne Whitacre, FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: awhitacre Post Number: 1465 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, September 14, 2020 - 04:24 pm:    Phil: sometimes it is our clients who have "special" requirements. I've got two public clients who like XX XXXX. We push all docs back to consultants to fix, or publish as is and let them take the heat.