Individual MasterSpec Sections

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Author Message Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 330 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 12:37 pm:    I occasionally need to purchase an individual section that is not included in my MasterSpec subscription. In the past, they have been available -- I seem to recall spending something under $200 per section. I just tried to get their section 233439 High-Volume, Low-Speed Propeller Fans (for Big A** Fans) and was told the only option is to purchase the entire mechanical library. I don't know whether this is a policy change under the Deltek regime, but I wonder whether it would be worth registering my displeasure w/ the AIA, sine they presumably set policies regarding access to MasterSpec by its members. In this case, I suggested to my client that the engineer develop the spec. But from my point of view, it seems like a mistake not to make individual sections available to those of us who have supported the system with our subscriptions for decades. (Or for that matter, anyone w/ a current subscription.) Does anyone else take issue with this, or have the ear of an AIA officer who might be in a position to respond? Marc Chavez maybe? Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 924 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 03:07 pm:    I would hope that the default practice is to expect the mechanical engineer and other consultants to generate the specification sections for the work that the consultant specified. In my experience master specifications of structural work provided by the architect tend to be deficient and or reflect a certain type of a project. In the long run it takes more time for the engineer to mark up the architects master that it would take to edit the engineer's master. Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 572 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 03:29 pm:    I will investigate Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 331 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 05:01 pm:    Mark G, I certainly agree w/ your suggested default practice. The mechanical engineer in this case didn't select the fans, but confirmed a selection by the architect and then declined to write the spec. I hear what you're saying about structural specs, too. On the flip side is another problem I see frequently, where the engineer doesn't have the interest or hasn't developed the skill to create clear, comprehensive specs. So the standard MasterSpec section w/ the engineer's input presents the best option for getting something decent into the documents. Marc C, thanks for looking into this. Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 925 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 05:12 pm:    There is a problem with engineers not understanding how to create specification section and while there are several reasons for this providing the engineer with a Master Specification provided by the Architect does not help. Start with a request that the engineer provide a spec section CSI could do a better job of trying to educate consultants regarding specifications. In my experience if the Architect lets the engineers know that they are expected to furnish specification sections they will. This is especially effective if providing specification sections influences the likelihood of additional work. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 514 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 05:17 pm:    I, too, would like to be able to buy individual sections to use for research to help a manufacturer develop products that meet MasterSpec. I would rather pay for a section than have to impose on a friend for a bootleg copy. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru E.A. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 05:37 pm:    Michael, I thought the use you describe was prohibited in Deltek's user agreement ... perhaps I'm mistaken. Marc Chavez linked to Deltek's user agreement in an earlier thread: http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/4254/9231.html?1580161813 Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 515 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, March 02, 2020 - 08:03 pm:    E.A.: I understand and respect Deltek's right to restrict "use". However, my need is to "understand;" copyright law pertains to the copying of words, not to knowledge and information. Reading a MasterSpec section has, in the past, helped me to: -- send recommendations or corrections to MasterSpec's publisher, -- advise a building product manufacturer that they should conduct a test that is referenced in MasterSpec in order to be competitive, -- recognize how work of related sections affect a product I am studying, or -- improve my knowledge of a material or method. I once drove all the way across Los Angeles county and back just to read a MasterSpec section in a subscriber's office. I would gladly have paid a publisher a handsome fee to avoid that trek through LA traffic. Indeed, I have on occasions, been able to get a review copy of a section. I would like it to be easier to get one, however. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2020 - 10:37 am:    Jeffrey - I too had been, under ARCOM regime, able to purchase individual master sections, but when I more recently asked Avitru about that, they said they no longer do so. As an alternative, I then drilled-thru Product Masterspec list to see if a manufacturer had developed the needed section (there is that section you need but edited by Hunter); yes, the mfr's editing favored their products, but as with many Product MasterSpecs sections, mfr's generally only add their specific product nomenclature and do not necessarily bother to edit the characteristics portions of the section...thus, most, if not all, of the original master text remains. This should be a good starting point for your project spec? E.A. (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2020 - 11:30 am:    Michael, I understand your position and I largely agree with it. If anything I'm pointing out the issues with Deltek's user agreement where it seems they do attempt to restrict your "use" of their product for research purposes. I'm sure Deltek would argue that your "use" in researching and understanding Deltek's product helps you provide better service to your clients ... clients who might otherwise go to Deltek to create guide specifications as part of their Product MasterSpec service. It's not about restricting knowledge and information, it's about restricting competition. Again, I'm not necessarily saying I agree with it. I'm just pointing out the potential issue you might have in attempting to procure sections from Deltek for the purposes you state. guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2020 - 10:46 am:    Jeffrey - BTW, since anyone is able to download Product MasterSpec sections, I'm unsure what the license/use restrictions is/are, since there is neither specificity nor reference link to any terms/conditions on head of first page? Maybe Marc can chime-in and offer "advice"? Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 576 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2020 - 01:56 pm:    Ok. I think that, first of all, you need to think about copyright as protecting intellectual property NOT a collection of words. "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" This sentence is not copyrightable, nor is "Submit manufacturer's product data" However, once one of our writers spends hours researching: 1.which quick brown foxes 2.which lazy dogs 3.what information is important to include 4.what information is not important to include We publish the following sentence: "The quick<insert mph or kph> brown (select from 45 available sub species of Vulpes vulpes, in shades of red to red brown to orange red per ASTM E1999) fox jumps <insert height and distance needed, see type of dog used> over the lazy<varies with air temperature, time of day, when last fed and type> dog (Ed note: Canis lupus familiaris various types usually over 50 lbs as these are slower than small types.) Now... all that RESEARCH IS the intellectual property of the AIA as managed by Deltek. To exist as a business we need to receive income on that research. We simply cannot share unedited copies of our product for "research" as that is exactly what we are selling. Next Question: Single Section Sales. These used to be available but at some time in the past, this was discontinued. I will add this to my list of items to bring up next time I discuss this with the sales group. Next: restricting your use. Unfortunately, our product is in Word. This format allows very easy copying. See the other discussion on this board on the EULA, believe me we VIGOROUSLY discussed the way architects and engineers really work which is not at all the way the original EULA was worded. We have found a good solution that allows you to use the product for projects during that time you have a current license. Product MasterSpec has been licensed to the manufacturer to provide to you on both their sites and ours (http://www.productmasterspec.com/) . You can grab and use those files as you would like to (hopefully giving careful consideration to the manufacturer's product as they have paid us for that use.) I think I have caught up with the conversation! Believe me we are constantly fighting the fight against ignorance and poverty at this end. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1113 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, March 03, 2020 - 05:18 pm:    I appreciate Marc's ongoing quest for light, truth, beauty, corn, and a little salt. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP