A word every specifier needs to know.

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Author Message Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 310 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2017 - 05:27 pm:    pleonasm: the use of more words or parts of words than are sufficient for clear expression. One pleonasm I use is to add the word "system" after a word that already means a system; for example, "roof system". I invite you to cite other pleonasms you encounter in our industry. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 596 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Friday, August 11, 2017 - 06:20 pm:    Automatic Entrance Door Assembly word word word assembly, or even, Roof System Assembly George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 864 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Saturday, August 12, 2017 - 02:52 pm:    Hot Water Heater. It's also incorrect - you are heater cold water. Richard A. Rosen, CSI, CCS, AIA Senior Member Username: rarosen Post Number: 125 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 02:09 pm:    I think just "water heater" is more appropriate since it will also heat lukewarm water. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 311 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 04:10 pm:    Is is a waste of energy to heat hot water. The purpose of heaters to raise the temperature of COLD water. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 591 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 04:11 pm:    Pre-engineered ... anything. Pre-manufactured ... anything. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2123 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 05:47 pm:    I always (1) laughed at and (2) changed "pre-qualified contractors". Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 312 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 06:17 pm:    Lynn - To what did you change the expression: "contractors" "qualified bidders" "pre-contractors" Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2124 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Monday, August 14, 2017 - 06:57 pm:    I finally convinced the owner to use "qualified". It would be difficult to be "pre-qualified", after all. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 974 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 01:24 am:    Type, as in: heavy-duty type galvanized type vertical type rated type perforated type suspended type etc. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 597 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 01:15 pm:    water resistant type roof system assembly Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 313 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 01:19 pm:    shouldn't it be hyphenated? water-resistant-type-roof-system assembly Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 598 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 05:40 pm:    Isn't there a rule, somewhere, where every third hyphen, should become a random and unnecessary comma? Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, August 15, 2017 - 04:47 pm:    I would term the above (water-resistant-type-roof-system assembly) as an all-inclusive performance statement? Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: louis_medcalf Post Number: 91 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 10:38 am:    "prior to" vs "before" "in lieu of" vs "instead of" "according to manufacturer's written instructions" (repeated over and over in spec sections) I've been using MasterSpec since 1982 and sometimes it seems the authors are paid by the word. One of the most beautiful and elegant sentences I've ever read is in Strunk & White's Elements of Style: "Omit needless words." Great advice for everyone--not just specifiers. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2125 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 10:58 am:    The use of the word "that" where the sentence makes sense without it. (And no, I cannot think of a single example right now) Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 975 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 11:25 am:    The word process often is unnecessary. "We are in the process of planning..." should be "We are planning..." However, it's a great word for discovering that the person you're talking with is from Canada. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1596 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 12:33 pm:    VCT tile CMU block ACP panels There are many others, I just cannot think of them right now. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1597 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 12:36 pm:    David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 865 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 01:06 pm:    The example that Lynn gave was an excellent one. The example Lynn gave was an excellent one. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1598 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 01:49 pm:    George, This forum will not tolerate redundancy in this forum! David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 314 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 02:08 pm:    Lynn gave excellent example. Lynn's example was excellent. Lynn's example is excellent. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 698 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 02:33 pm:    MSDS sheets David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1600 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 03:51 pm:    Product data sheets. (They are really product nondata sheets developed by the marketing department.) David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 315 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 16, 2017 - 04:12 pm:    David, I realize you are expressing a too common frustration about the blurring between product data sheets and product sales sheets. It is important to recognize, however, that many manufacturers (and their marketing departments) strive to provide reliable and useful technical information. For example, I am preparing a product data sheet for a manufacturer; my client's instructions are to "tell us the type of information an architect needs and we will run the tests that are necessary to document performance." Here is what one of the 20th Century masters of marketing had to say on the topic: “In the past, just about every advertiser has assumed that in order to sell his goods he has to convince consumers that his product is superior to his competitor’s. “This may not be necessary. It may be sufficient to convince consumers that your product is positively good. If the consumer feels certain that your product is good and feels uncertain about your competitor’s, he will buy yours. “If you and your competitors all make excellent products, don’t try to imply that your product is better. Just say what’s good about your product – and DO A CLEARER, MORE HONEST, MORE INFORMATIVE JOB OF SAYING IT. “If this theory is right, sales will swing to the marketer who does the best job of creating confidence that his product is positively good.” Quoted by David Ogilvy in On Advertising. 1983 (EMPHASIS ADDED) Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 208 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 09:52 am:    Michael Chusid's wisdom comes from his respect for manufacturers. Respect is good. From the midwest (Ohio): Although we write the phrase as "EIFS systems" we pronounce it "EEF systems." Some of us, thinking we are more correct, double clutch and pronounce it "EEFS systems". For a laugh, try either one after eating a mouthful of soda crackers. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 699 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 10:13 am:    David, your posting brought back fond memories of Bob Tench RIP, who insisted on pronouncing EIFS as "eyefs", not "eefs" David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 209 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 10:34 am:    Good morning, Dave. I think Bob Tench may have had something there. Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: louis_medcalf Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 12:27 pm:    More examples of redundant language from our favorite commercial spec master: "On vertical surfaces, set insulation units using manufacturer's recommended adhesive according to manufacturer's written instructions." "extend insulation a minimum of 24 inches ..." instead of (in lieu of?) "extend insulation minimum 24 inches ..." Re the pronunciation of EIFS: Most folks I know here in TN pronounce it with two syllables as ee'-fus, but the president of EIMA whom I met many years ago preferred 'eefs'. On the other hand, since EIFS was originally developed in Europe, Bob Tench's pronunciation might be appropriate since the 'ei' diphthong in German is pronounced like 'eye'. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 225 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, August 17, 2017 - 12:50 pm:    Clarity trumps brevity in my view: I say "E I F S." Uttering a couple extra syllables seems a worthwhile trade-off if there is no apparent agreement on a shorthand term. Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA