Author |
Message |
Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEEDŽ AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby
Post Number: 246 Registered: 03-2003
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 11:19 am: | |
Of course, this never happens to anyone that I know. http://architexts.us/2015/01/21/construction-administration-furnish-and-install/ |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1946 Registered: 07-2002
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 11:31 am: | |
Well, if the contractor can figure out a way to "install" the product being provided without nails, then he's correct. |
Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEEDŽ AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby
Post Number: 247 Registered: 03-2003
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 12:04 pm: | |
Super glue and duct tape? |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 1947 Registered: 07-2002
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 12:05 pm: | |
construction adhesive... |
George A. Everding, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: geverding
Post Number: 781 Registered: 11-2004
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 12:09 pm: | |
Most products have manufacturer's installation instructions that include fasteners. That's why "Comply with manufacturer's written instructions" appears in Part 3 of most sections. |
Richard Gonser AIA CSI CCCA SCIP Senior Member Username: rich_gonser
Post Number: 87 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 12:21 pm: | |
Chewing gum and bailing wire... |
Curt Norton, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: curtn
Post Number: 197 Registered: 06-2002
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 12:31 pm: | |
Too funny! I just finished explaining to my consulting engineer that provide means furnish and install. |
Robert E. Woodburn, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: bob_woodburn
Post Number: 125 Registered: 11-2010
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 12:51 pm: | |
provided, however, that the context may indicate otherwise... |
Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 819 Registered: 01-2003
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 02:18 pm: | |
Which suggests the context should be revised. |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick
Post Number: 1614 Registered: 03-2002
| Posted on Thursday, January 22, 2015 - 02:48 pm: | |
This isn't exactly a furnish and install story, but it's in the same vein of contractor ridiculousness. A contractor on a multi-family project was embroiled in a soils dispute with the owner, and decided to stick it to them whenever he could. The hardware spec failed to specify a finish for the hinges, so he decided to provide primed hinges rather than ask what was needed and provide that. He was pleased with himself until I showed him the painting spec which required all primed surfaces to be painted. Of course, up until then, he had managed to paint the doors and frames but not the hinges. He was even angrier after that, but this guy let his anger cloud his better judgement every day. |
Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest
| Posted on Monday, January 26, 2015 - 05:56 pm: | |
Whose Div 01 sections say "provide", e.g., submittals, schedules, documentation, etc.? If so, how does one "furnish and install" a submittal, a schedule...or any documentation for that matter? |
Curt Norton, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: curtn
Post Number: 198 Registered: 06-2002
| Posted on Monday, January 26, 2015 - 07:00 pm: | |
If you define the term properly, it won't be an issue: The term "provide" as used in the Project Manual in connection with labor, materials, and equipment means pay for, furnish, and install, complete; including connecting to utilities or service, complete anchorage and suspension, fastening or anchor devices, trim, finish and other related work, unless specifically specified otherwise. |
Richard Gonser AIA CSI CCCA SCIP Senior Member Username: rich_gonser
Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2008
| Posted on Monday, January 26, 2015 - 08:54 pm: | |
Obviously you don't install a shop drawing. Though they might be usable for some tacky wallpaper...or gift wrap. |
Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest
| Posted on Monday, January 26, 2015 - 10:54 pm: | |
I was being facetious...of course. But I had recent public project owner who "bled" all over my AIA MasterSpec-based Div 01 sections that said to "provide" submittals and other forms of documentation. Their GC's defined the term...and to them, it was "wrong" to use. Although I think they are/were overly "anal"...and I realize why. Having been a previous employee of that public entity, I saw that they were "gutless" in their contract admin (of RFI's. and C.O.'s) and relented to (Contractor's) almost every claim. |
J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan
Post Number: 797 Registered: 05-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - 10:12 am: | |
Guest's implication that MasterSpec does not use the term "provide" in relation to submittals is correct (I wanted to look it up to be sure). The phrase is "Submit [insert type of submittal]...", and is used in relation to any related actions (not just those in the "Submittal Procedures" section. I guess you could say "Prepare and submit...", but I don't know how you submit something that you haven't prepared; uh, wait, I have seen submittals that did not look like they had been prepared. MasterSpec (and many other guide specifications) define "Provide" as "furnish and install" as well as "furnish" ("Supply and deliver to Project site...) and "install" (Unload, temporarily store, unpack, assemble, erect, place, anchor, apply, work"...). If I remember correctly, the common sense definition of "furnish" is "provide" so clear definition of the ways that these words are used in the Project Manual is needed. By the way, AIA A 201 used to define "Project Manual", but this definition has gone away. |
Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 820 Registered: 01-2003
| Posted on Tuesday, January 27, 2015 - 06:47 pm: | |
01-3300 Deliver submittals to... Other sections Submittals: Item 1 Item 2 Item 3 |
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