| Author |
Message |
Jerome J. Lazar, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: lazarcitec
Post Number: 2051
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 02:22 pm: |    |
Anyone specifying this product; yes I know there is a thread from 2015 discussing this product and yes I have reached out to the manufacturer's rep. This time looking at insulating underside of existing corrugated metal deck to increase insulation value by R13. Location is South Florida. The insulation will be exposed. Also looking at closed cell spray foam. |
Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: louis_medcalf
Post Number: 106
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 03:03 pm: | |
I specified the product earlier this year for steel beams that penetrated the exterior wall that connected to a separate steel-framed screen wall on the south side of a building. No feedback from the field as yet, but I don't think the project is that far along. |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 903
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 03:06 pm: | |
Jerome,
Likewise, I specified for the same reasons as Louis.
My project was public bid. Construction should commence soon. |
Greta Eckhardt
Senior Member
Username: gretaeckhardt
Post Number: 108
Registered: 08-2013
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 03:15 pm: | |
I believe that this product is primarily intended for strategic applications at the type of penetration Louis just mentioned, rather than as a thermal layer across a wide substrate, where it may be cost-prohibitive. Tnemec engaged Morrison Hershfield to prepare thermal studies of suggested details to demonstrate performance - perhaps your local Tnemec representative can furnish copies for you, along with an idea of the cost.
It does not seem like a good idea to expose either Aerolon or spray foam insulation to the weather. How about EIFS? |
Jerome J. Lazar, CDT, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: lazarcitec
Post Number: 2052
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 03:28 pm: | |
Greta perhaps I wasn't clear, this is soon to be an existing interior condition, original spec two years ago called for R18 roof insulation, a tenant has been signed that is requiring R30. The Architect wishes to retain an open ceiling (metal deck), exposing insulation. Looking for cost effective solutions, Aerolon may not be cost effective. |
Greta Eckhardt
Senior Member
Username: gretaeckhardt
Post Number: 109
Registered: 08-2013
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 03:33 pm: | |
Thanks for the clarification, Jerome. The code may require a thermal barrier coating to separate the foam from the interior environment. |
William C. Pegues
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 982
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 28, 2019 - 05:14 pm: | |
Jerome,
I see yours is not an exposed exterior condition, but for others...Aerolon can be an exterior exposed application, so long as it is covered with a top coat, which can include a number of things, even non-Tnemec coatings so long as Tnemec has them on their list and the application is known to be recoated via the contract documents. You just get with you local Tnemec Rep.
I have used it in much the application that you describe, and it has been used on some major projects as well. Probably one of the largest was an ‘after the fact’ application on the Aqua high rise residential building in Chicago ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqua_(skyscraper) ). This project has floor slabs extending well out beyond the facade all around the building at every floor (a neat pattern when you look up from the ground below. And they make fantastic cooling fins especially in the winter - as management came to understand from the complaints of residents with cold floors near exterior walls. What they did was coat the slabs with Aerolon, top and bottom extending about 3 feet out from the wall, and then coated them with a protective coating for color/sheen matching the rest of the painted concrete. No fear of walking on it since where they slabs were used as balconies, they had a wood decking over the slab.
Worked great, and that was a number of years ago.
What you need to understand is that you just don’t apply it. Tnemec wants to be involved to recommend the number and thicknesses of coats as you may need more than 1 to achieve the insulation value you need. For an interior application, it can be left exposed.
The Tnemec rep will give you a complete coating spec, primer (with options) the coating and if they recommend any protective coatings (since though covered may be exposed for awhile). If you are having trouble getting a fast response, feel free to contact me direct and I will send you the contact rep I have worked with up here since the mid-80s and he will work with the local group.
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP |
E.A. (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 03:27 pm: | |
William,
Do you know of any publicly-accessible information on the use of Aerolon for the Aqua Tower you've described? I'd love to have a case study, article, or white paper to refer people to when describing some of the uses of this coating. I've searched Google to no avail and was hoping you might have some insight or more information.
Jerome,
Tnemec's data sheet notes the R-value per inch of Aerolon is 4.1, but at that thickness it probably isn't feasible physically or economically ... let alone to get over 3 inches of thickness to get the R-13 your client is looking for.
Closed-cell SPF may be your best option for thickness and R-value. To leave it as the exposed finish you'll need to apply a thermal barrier product over the foam to comply with the requirements in the building code Greta mentioned. There are a number of thin-film intumescent products available (your SPF manufacturer should be able to point you to some), and I believe W.R. Grace has a cementitous product that goes down at around 3/4 inch thick. The manufacturer I'll mention below also has a product, but it is applied much thicker than those other products ... although it adds acoustic (NRC 0.95) and thermal (R-4.5/inch) properties.
Another product to consider would be International Cellulose Corporation's K-13 insulation. Not as good of an R-value per inch as closed-cell SPF, but it adds some acoustic performance and wouldn't require the thermal barrier that the foam would. |
Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP
Senior Member
Username: wilsonconsulting
Post Number: 304
Registered: 03-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 04:40 pm: | |
SPF w/ a thermal barrier coating sounds like a good solution for the situation Jerome describes. For years, I spec'd GCP's Monokote Z-3306 over the SPF. Now there are several SPF mfr's that offer their own coatings or approve other's, including:
1. BASF “Walltite” with Flame Seal Products, Inc. (flamesealtb.com) “Flame Seal-TB” intumescent coating
2. Demilec (USA) LLC “Heatlok Soy 200 Plus” with “BlazeLock TBX” intumescent coating
3. Preferred Solutions, Inc. “Staycell Hybrid Foam Insulation”
Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP
Wilson Consulting Inc
Ardmore PA |
Marc Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 519
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 04:46 pm: | |
the SPF manufacturer will have to have test results (NFPA 275 temp and integrity tests) for their foam coated with the specified cover unless it is the prescriptive 1/2 inch gyp wallboard...see 2603.4.1. therefore dont just go grabbing any spf and any other cover. |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1233
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 05:48 pm: | |
Actually the Code says 1/2 inch gypsum board or material tested to meet NFPA 275 criteria. In fact my understanding is that 1/2 inch gyp board doesn't always meet the testing requirements.
I too agree with E.A. except that the ICC product I typically use is their Ure-K which is specifically engineered for use over urethane foams. See http://www.spray-on.com/products/urek/ |
Marc Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 520
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 05:53 pm: | |
but just to be argumentative. the code does say "or" so it does not matter if a particular gyp is a bit less than that test criteria. I've fulfilled the code requirements if I use 1/2 gyp wall board. I do not see any further definition of "thermal barrier" in ch2 or here.. |
William C. Pegues
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 983
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2019 - 11:48 pm: | |
All,
My Tnemec local rep has sent me a good number of project descriptions, studies, evaluations. 18 pdf files to be exact. Ranges from under a meg to a couple megs each. I can make a list of what they are, and place that here, not sure I can upload that many attachments on a message, or that large.
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP |
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