Marble Threshold or Saddle

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1970 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 01:04 pm:    Have always referred to this stone strip between bedroom and bathroom in Residential work as a threshold, today I was advised it is actually a saddle? How do my fellow specifies reference this product? ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1217 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 01:10 pm:    My understanding is that a saddle is a threshold that is beveled on both sides. The two terms should not be mutually exclusive. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 271 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 02:23 pm:    Two terms for the same condition, in my experience. From "Stone Exchange" website: Are Marble Floor Saddles and Thresholds the Same Thing? Yes they are. It’s just a name preference. Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1971 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 02:29 pm:    I agree, but client's PM insists I delete the term "threshold", while I would like to keep the term. I have written specs for this firm for 22 years, all the other projects use "thresholds". This firm has no standard, each PM does his own thing, usually they follow my direction. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 272 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 03:16 pm:    Sometimes a little education is needed. If the PM knows the terms are interchangeable, s/he might not insist on the change. I generally resist changing terms in the spec, too, and frequently make the argument that specs are the "authority" when it comes to construction terms. My standard proposal/agreement includes this provision: "Standard terms used in MasterSpec will be retained in specification text; it is suggested that terms on Architect’s drawings be coordinated with specification terms." On rare occasions when my suggestions for terms don't prevail, I've been known to put the Dwg term in parentheses at least once in the spec, to correlate differing terms used on Dwgs and in specs: "Threshold (Saddle)" Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 189 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 03:27 pm:    Threshold is the commonly known term. In 40 years of construction, I have never heard the term saddle to describe a threshold. Have the PM google saddle. Nowhere on the page is there any reference to what we know as a threshold. Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1973 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 03:43 pm:    Dwayne, I thought the same, however there is a popular Miami website for stone flooring, that says: "A marble threshold is a strip of marble used to separate different flooring surfaces from one area to another such as a transition from a bathroom to bedroom. Marble thresholds are also known as marble saddles or transition thresholds." The "fun" of specwriting is that its a continuing learning experience, not so much fun today. George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 887 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 09:54 pm:    For what it's worth (I know Jerry is asking about flooring and not door hardware) ANSI/BHMA A156.21 "American National Standard for Thresholds" has definitions: "Threshold: A horizontal member installed beneath a closed door or in a wall opening." [this appears to be the generic definition, encompassing many varieties, including...] "Flat Saddle: A threshold with a flat top that is smooth or fluted." "Half Saddle: A threshold with a flat top that is smooth or fluted and lies flush with an offset." This door hardware standard also has Illustrations and Descriptions of various threshold configurations. It seems to me this is a fairly good starting point for those interested in standard threshold nomenclature. Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1977 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 10:25 pm:    Prior to today, I can't remember the last time I used the word "saddle" in conversation or specifications. Other than door hardware folks, all raise their hands if you are truly interested in threshold nomenclature? Dave, where are you? Ken? ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1218 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 - 11:55 pm:    Sounds like instead of being back in the saddle you're having another turn in the barrel and you're heading straight for the falls! I think George introduces some good, useful definitions identifying saddles as types of thresholds. Perhaps this PM can clarify what saddle configuration he wants. I'd ask him for make and model or a copy of the industry standard that he's using so that you can educate yourself regarding his preferences. Kill him with kindness in your attempt to edify yourself. I'm curious as to what he thinks he's trying to get. Perhaps he can furnish you with a detail. Good luck. I hope he's around to answer the RFI that's sure to be submitted by the contractor asking what type of saddle you want, Western or English. Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1978 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2019 - 09:42 am:    George in retrospect my stab at humor regarding "threshold nomenclature" was not meant to offend, I was upset at my client who kept dumping questions on a job that took too long to finish, I wound up doing an all nighter to finish another job due this morning, I am getting too old for this kind of abuse. Anyway, George, I always appreciate your responses to my posts. Now I am going to bed, the only advantage of being a one man show is that I get to close the door when ever I damn please and let the phone ring. Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Thursday, February 21, 2019 - 01:25 pm:    There are requirements for "thresholds," not for "saddles," in relevant Codes. The terms may be interchangeable in common usage, but in a legally binding set of contract documents, you really should use the term defined in the Code. David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 289 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Friday, February 22, 2019 - 07:53 am:    Ken Hercenberg, " Good luck. I hope he's around to answer the RFI that's sure to be submitted by the contractor asking what type of saddle you want, Western or English" Thanks. I blew coffee out through my nose when I read this. George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 888 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Friday, February 22, 2019 - 01:47 pm:    Not offended at all, Jerry. Your comment made me smile. It never ceases to amaze me how many arcane topics and definitions there are in this industry, and how often people disagree on what is meant. Sorting through the morass trying to add clarity is what we specifiers do best, even though it's frustrating at times. Hope the new day looks better for you. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 461 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, February 22, 2019 - 04:50 pm:    Horsing around on Friday Afternoon: If a door can have a saddle, let's define Stirrup as latch plate Reins as door knob. Bit as hinge pin Tail as sweep. Cinch as screws to hold hinges. Horn as the spindle in lock. Corral as door frame. Stop as gate. Mane as ornamental panels Curry as final cleaning Shoe as kick plate Eye as peephole Nostril as ventilation grille Whip as AHJ Manure as non-conforming work Steeplechase as charrette Wrangler as hardware supplier Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru