Pool Equipment Room Doors

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1628 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 03:28 pm:    What are my peers specifying for the door to the Pool Equipment Room? And the door Hardware? Corrosion being the concern. David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 137 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 04:27 pm:    Jerome, We have found FRP doors to be very good for applications like yours. Tiger Doors is one manufacturer. We also specify stainless steel hinges, Type 316. Guden is a reputable manufacturer of those. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 628 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 04:27 pm:    these http://www.edgewaterfrp.com/home Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1629 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 04:32 pm:    Thanks David & Robin, I do the same, except for Apartment Projects in SO FL, no one wants to spend that kind of $$$, looking for less expensive options. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1474 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 07:52 pm:    I specify fiberglass doors since humidity and chlorine will eat up a steel door no matter what special coating you put on it. Stainless steel doors work and are way too expensive (7 to 8 times the price of a regular hollow metal door). Your hardware consultant also needs to be versed on pool rooms since door hardware should be dull chrome on brass (626 / US26D) not stainless steel (630 / US32) since the type of stainless steel (304) on door hardware surfaces rusts. And as if you have not heard enough negative comments from me, no glass manufacture will warrant their insulated glass being used in a pool environment. The seals around the insulating glass units will fail, it is just a matter of time. Also all joint sealants need to be polysulfide not silicone or urethane. I could go on and on. Pools are very tricky beasts. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1633 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2016 - 08:44 pm:    David, et al, these are metal doors leading to a pool equipment room inside the parking garage that will not be storing chemicals. The swimming pool is outside of the parking garage. The client is concerned about corrosion to materials in the room and asked if there are any standards that should be followed? David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 138 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 08:10 am:    In that case, doors fabricated with galvanized steel sheet would probably serve your client well. Type 304 stainless steel hinges would also be adequate. A high-performance paint on the doors might seem like a good additional measure, but it will quickly wear off where you need it most. I sympathize with Jerome's dilemma - that of the client who can afford the pool, but not what it takes to make the building function better. No doubt, that client will drag the architect back in a few years and try to place blame where it does not belong - then pay the contractor handsomely to fix it. As always, Jerome, keep your spirit up. Your clients seem to put you way out on the fringes of risk. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 137 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 10:42 am:    In corrosive areas, why not use wood plank doors made from a rot-resistant wood and assembles with dovetail joints and dowels. Nothing to rust. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 139 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 10:49 am:    Great point, Michael Chusid. How easy it is to overlook a simple solution in favor of a more complicated engineered solution. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1635 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2016 - 01:06 pm:    If I ever specified a wood plank door for a BOH condition, the Architect would have my head....Michael its always about cost, your solution might be simple, but it is not cost effective. David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 140 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Friday, April 22, 2016 - 08:29 am:    Understood in your case, Jerome. But Michael presents a solution that may work for those whose budgets are less constrained. My firm does several pools a year in fitness/wellness applications, and in some cases, a wood door would work well. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1641 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, April 22, 2016 - 08:45 am:    I did not reference in my original query that this was for a Pool Equipment Room in SFL, so I agree that a wood plank door could work, jut not for my application; requires too much maintenance. Richard A. Rosen, CSI, CCS, AIA Senior Member Username: rarosen Post Number: 121 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Friday, April 22, 2016 - 01:12 pm:    Wood plank or any wood for that matter when exposed to some corrosives, particularly chlorine, are prone to serious deterioration of the wood fibers. After years of working on water treatment facilities I'm convinced that fiberglass doors and frames are the best solution. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 138 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, April 22, 2016 - 02:29 pm:    Here is another approach for those trying to meet a tight budget: Specify the cheapest door that will meet other criteria such as security. Have the contractor provide a lot of spares. The owner can install a new door, then, whenever an installed door gets too funky. To keep costs low, use a sheet of plywood hinges and a hasp mounted on exterior of door and frame. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 826 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Friday, April 22, 2016 - 04:42 pm:    Michael's response might be a bit facetious, but it bears consideration. Either install a durable expensive product, or an inexpensive one and maintain/replace/repair it more often. It reminds me of going to the auto show shortly after I graduated college. My friend and I decided we could either buy one Mercedes, or seven Yugos (one for every day of the week) - the end result and lifetime cost would probably be the same. Fortunately, we couldn't afford either option... Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEEDŽ AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 268 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, April 22, 2016 - 05:32 pm:    Even if you plan on replacing doors, you probably should install the most durable frame possible. Otherwise you will be replacing the frame as well eventually. Not as often as the door perhaps, but still. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 140 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, April 22, 2016 - 05:41 pm:    A nice thing about the proposed plywood door is that it requires no frame. It can be entirely installed on exterior face of walls. The looser it fits, the easier it is to ventilate the equipment room. (And if you make it out of salvaged concrete formwork, it counts towards LEED V3 reused materials points.) Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 141 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Monday, April 25, 2016 - 01:50 pm:    I love it! Limbo specifying! How low can you go? andy (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2016 - 08:46 am:    Worked for d/f/h supplier for many years. We did a lot of hotel projects. We had the same issue regarding the pool room door. I priced the owner a standard wood door and fiberglass door. Owner stated he could replace the wood door and hardware five times for the price of the fiberglass door. The wood door/hardware would last about four years. The frames were Timely, so they were easy to change out also. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 10:55 am:    Reflective of the typical "built-in obsolescence" and "throw-away" mentality? At what cost to overall environmental impact too? Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 144 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, May 06, 2016 - 06:16 pm:    Before we get into a discussion of the environmental impact of doors to swimming pool equipment rooms where corrosive chemicals are stored, how about a discussion of the environmental impact of swimming pools and corrosive chemicals. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 192 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 08:52 am:    Not to tie a knot in this thread (isn't English great) but what, if any, affect does the environment around salt water swimming pools have on the equipment and hardware associated with them? I understand they are becoming more popular in hotel and high-end multi-family projects. Brett Scarfino (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 12:43 pm:    salt water pools have a "reactor" to generate free chlorine in lieu of old fashioned chemicals. I believe the reactor also breaks down the intermediate byproducts of chlorine. The byproducts are what needs to be controlled for corrosion purposes (they are volatile/leave the water/cause the pool smell/are highly corrosive).