Archive through November 08, 2014

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1203 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, November 03, 2014 - 09:17 pm:    I SPECIFIED CLASS I FINISH, THE MANUJFACTURER'S REP CAME BACK WITH THE FOLLOWING COMMENT: "note that the anodized finish is Class II @ .4 mil and is not Class I. Aluminum composite panels are fabricated from aluminum coil sheet which typically is provided in a Class II anodized finish." The Job is in So Florida, I am not comfortable with a Class II Anodic finish as I've always specified Class I, is the manufacturer's rep correct or should I retain my spec as is? J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 781 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 11:06 am:    The guide specification for Alucobond indicates that a Class 1 clear anodized finish is available. Class II is available upon request. Alpolic also indicates that they offer a Class I. So the Class I finish is available. The ACM people tend to shy away from anodized finishes because they are less flexible and tend to be damaged in the fabrication process. Fluoropolymer finishes are more flexible and tend to be damaged less in the fabrication process. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 841 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 12:11 pm:    It's also harder to maintain color quality control with anodizing than with PVDF finishes. Still, in this case, if you spec it they should be able to furnish it. Can we presume this was not one of the bigger ACM manufacturers? Was the comment coming from the fabricator or the manufacturer? Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 256 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 12:16 pm:    With a clear anodized finish on ACM, please be sure your Architect understands what it will look like. I've had some very unhappy designers who didn't like the installed anodized panel look. If the Architect wants really consistent silver color, then a PVDF coating is probably preferable. - Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1204 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 12:47 pm:    Lisa, I did not support the decision to specify an anodic finish, this was the decision of the architect's, I believe it is the wrong one esp for the SFL location. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1205 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 12:48 pm:    Ken, the proposed ACM fabricator is called Laminators, Inc. I have no prior experience with them, they were selected by the architect. Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 702 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 12:57 pm:    The fabricator does not manufacture the ACM panels. At least those that fabricate Alpolic, Alucobond and Reynobond in my region. Who is the source for the ACM? Is it a very populace country to the west of the USA? Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1206 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 01:02 pm:    Laminators, Inc. is the manufacturer, based in Hartfield, PA www.laminatorsinc.com . Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 703 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 01:11 pm:    Laminators, Inc. does not manufacturer a true ACM to equal Alpolic, Alucobond and Reynobond. Laminators panels are more like composite panels from Mapes Industries (www.mapes.com) J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 782 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2014 - 03:07 pm:    These types of products do not have the PE core and are used for car dealerships. They may in fact not meet your specifications the way you have written them. Having said that, for them to tell you that aluminum sheets with Class I anodizing are not available is simply false. They don't want to do it for some reason or another. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1606 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Saturday, November 08, 2014 - 03:37 pm:    For aluminum composite panels (ACM), (rigid face with solid plastic core) there are ACM material manufacturers such as Alpolic, Alucobond and Reynobond. They make flat panels only, used as a raw material. Then there are fabricators who turn them into things useful on the outside of the building (or inside, too). I don't believe any panel manufacturers fabricate. In this way, it's like the glass industry (mostly). There are also a number of companies that make laminated panels with a variety of faces and cores. Cores could be plywood, rigid insulation, corrugated plastic, etc., or a combination of these. Most of these panels cannot be bent and formed into 3-D shapes like ACM. Laminator's Inc looks like it is this type of panel manufacturer. They may be able to fabricate ACM, too, I didn't do that level of research. With anodized, there may be a directional grain, so that every panel must be cut out of the sheet in the same orientation that it will go on the building. Otherwise, it will reflect light differently once installed, and look like the panels are not the same color. And, I'm not sure any more that it is less costly than PVDF (at one time, at least, it was not). It does have more of a metallic look than a painted finish. But be aware of why it is selected and potential limitations.