SOL-R-Wall Insulation - Radiant Barrier

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1519 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, November 24, 2015 - 11:35 pm:    A submittal for this product lists the manufacturer as International Insulation Products, however on their website this product doesn't exist, also the submittal includes a Johns Manville research report, which really has me confused. This is one of those times when the Architect has reached out to me for assistance as a favor, but I am baffled. its a last minute request, received at 5pm today, no time to call the manufacturer who ever it is. I found nothing on 4Specs, Google provided the parent company web site, ONCE ON THEIR WEBSITE I SENT AN EMAIL QUERY, scratching my head on this one. I'd like to respond in the morning, only because I have such a dismal day tomorrow, I don't want this favor to be one I regret, I have such a long list of those already. Greta Eckhardt Senior Member Username: gretaeckhardt Post Number: 37 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - 10:07 am:    I am not familiar with this product, but perhaps it is a thin insulation with a foil facing? If so, in order to work as a radiant barrier, the foil must be installed facing an air space. DuPont has helpful information on their website about such a product called Tyvek Thermawrap. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1520 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - 10:20 am:    Greta, the Sol-R is being proposed as a substitution to a product manufactured by Fi-Foil that we use a lot in So Florida multifamily work. Fi-Foil is a great product but apparently has gotten pricey so Contractors are looking for alternatives. Which I have no problem with, however when the manufacturer won't respond to me, doesn't answer their phone and I can not find the product name anywhere, red flags appear out of no where and I refuse to accept the product. Greta, I am well aware of Tyvek, it can not be used on the interior face of an exterior CBS wall, it becomes a vapor barrier that would harbor mold. The Fi Foil is perforated which allows it to breathe. I was hoping one of my colleagues might have seen this product, or could shed a light on the mystery. Its rare when a legitimate manufacturer does not respond to my many queries. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 967 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 25, 2015 - 10:24 am:    I don't know this manufacturer but I do know radiant barriers and they are not a substitution for insulation as you know it. It blocks radiant heat, that's it. Not conductive. To block radiant heat it typically needs 3/4 inches clear in front of the film. The film has to be kept clean, no dust or dirt accumulation over time. If you can't get to it to inspect it periodically and clean it, it will lose it's performance capabilities. If it wasn't specified or designed into the project, it probably does not comply with anything that was specified. anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 01:27 pm:    what purpose is served placing a radiant barrier on the interior face of an exterior wall in a hot humid climate? Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1521 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 02:36 pm:    anon, I DON'T WASTE MY TIME EDUCATING ANON MEMBERS BOTTOM LINE ITS BLDG CODE APPROVED AND CHEAPER THAN ANY OTHER WALL INSULATION for SO FLORIDA; GOOGLE LSTIBUREK AND YOU MIGHT LEARN SOMETHING. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1522 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, November 27, 2015 - 02:41 pm:    Ken, in SFL Apartment construction the Developer does not care what works better, he only cares that he can get a building permit at the lowest construction cost. I finally spoke to the Owner of the company, he is in Dubai at a trade show, must be nice...anyway he claims to have all the Miami-Dade Co approvals and will fly in to meet with me, I thanked him and told him to take a number, there are dozens of reps ahead of him, but I will eventually meet with him just to see if he can support his claims of a better product at a lower cost, Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, November 30, 2015 - 12:16 pm:    Jerome, I took the liberty of looking up Lstiburek for anon and found the following regarding radiant barriers in Florida ... "This radiant barrier insulation nonsense is getting out of hand. If you think that it provides any thermal benefit on the inside of the typical mass wall I have some swamp-land in Florida that is for sale…" Found here: Mold in Alligator Alley (footnote 3) http://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-037-mold-in-alligator-alley If you're not opposed to educating a guest, I'm willing to listen... anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Monday, November 30, 2015 - 12:41 pm:    From Joe Lstiburek's BSD 106 - Understanding Vapor Retarders: "Avoidance of the installation of vapor barriers such as polyethylene vapor barriers, foil faced batt insulation and reflective radiant barrier foil insulation on the interior of air-conditioned assemblies – a practice that has been linked with moldy buildings (Lstiburek, 2002). From Building Science Corp (Lstiburek) Podcast "How heat Moves Through Homes" "Now, what you need is a gap. If you have aluminum foil, which does not emit radiation very well, it does not change the heat flow across the building assembly unless there’s an air gap. So, you need a gap. As has been pointed out by other posters in this thread, radiant barriers don't work without an air space facing the barrier material. In hot climates, radiant barriers are a good idea in attics, to radiate heat away from the conditioned space below - heat that is coming in from the sun above. There is no value in placing a radiant barrier (perforated or not) on the inside of an exterior wall assembly in a hot humid climate. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1523 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, November 30, 2015 - 06:55 pm:    Anon "There is no value in placing a radiant barrier (perforated or not) on the inside of an exterior wall assembly in a hot humid climate." I am but the lowly specifier, if my client, the Architect requests a radiant barrier, that is what I specify. They do not want to be educated. I agree radiant barriers on walls are crap, but the building code allows it and all the architect and developer care about is getting the permit.