interior vapor retarder color

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Author Message Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 867 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 02:23 pm:    Is there a reason to use a black interior vapor retarder? UV resistance isn't needed, and being able to see, though poorly, what's behind it is an advantage. Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 190 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 03:20 pm:    Maybe for a vapor retarder when it's exposed on the underside of a roof? anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 03:20 pm:    are you sure you need it at all? IBC has three new classifications of vapor retarders, and the minimum classification allows simply latex paint on the interior surface of the exterior wall gypsum board. I can think of no reason to require a black vapor retarder. If you need something more than paint, consider Certainteed's MemBrain - see-through and "smart" to boot. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1424 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 03:38 pm:    Latex paint may not be warranted for vapor retarding...I had that problem in SFL when a large Developer wanted to use it on the interior face of CBS walls and at that time (10 yrs ago) the paint manufacturers would not honor their warranty if use as a vapor retarder. anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 04:13 pm:    if it works, a warranty is not even remotely relevant. warranties are protection for manufacturers, not end users. physics doesn't care if the paint is warranted for use as a vapor retarder or not. lots of materials and products are vapor retarders without anything saying as such - glazing, metal panels, plywood, etc. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1425 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 05:56 pm:    Anon, the client wanted a warranty of some kind, when I reached out to the paint manufacturer they said their product would not be warranted for that use. I'm not sure what business you are in, since you care not to identify yourself, but when a client wants something like a warranty, its not worth talking them out of it nor trying to explain to a multi-million dollar company that a warranty is not relevant. anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 06:31 pm:    i'm in the same business as you. and when a client asks for something like this, yes - i spend the time to explain the irrelevance, absolutely. i have a 100% successful track record, clients that appreciate having learned something valuable, and repeat business. not everyone's business strategy, certainly, but it does work for those with the knowledge and confidence to implement it. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 926 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 07:11 pm:    Forgive me if I'm skeptical. I've dealt with dozens of clients (more than I can count, even if I take off my shoes) and a handful were receptive to some or all of what I've offered. Most had no interest in my opinion unless I saved them money or I agreed with the opinion they already formed, or both. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1426 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 07:11 pm:    Anon, I have a problem with you, if you are in the same business as I am, why not identify yourself? I accept the anons of the world who work for corporations and would rather remain anon. due to a conflict of interest. Anon. your status perplexes me, but I don't really care, too many other fights to fight and dragons to slay. This client had guide specs which they had developed over years of very successful development, I won some battles with them, but warranty battles were not worth fighting, I have learned when to fight those battles and this was not one of them. I hope you have repeat business, otherwise you shouldn't be posting here giving advice. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1427 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 07:21 pm:    Back to Sheldon's question I asked the question, why are vapor barriers black and the great seer of all information on the net, google answered (many times over) via eHow, this one sounded pretty good: "Black barriers are more effective at stopping moisture evaporation, compared with the clear barrier. The dark color impedes the growth of plant seeds that might reside beneath a home's crawlspace. Plants naturally exude moisture into the air, creating more moisture. In addition, any sunlight that enters the crawlspace cannot penetrate the black color, hindering the evaporation process within the soil." Perhaps I need to refine my search? Later. Din Din is over, back to making a living. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 58 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 02:56 am:    Black is used as a pigment in many plastics because it (carbon black) is inexpensive. It functions as a filler/extender, imparts some UV resistance, hides variations in appearance, etc. It probably harkens back to when waterproofing, tar paper, etc was black because it was made with coal tar or asphalt. Customers got used to seeing black, so black it was. Disclaimer: I am speculating based on limited info. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 868 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 08:47 am:    I did find comments supporting black for exterior products, but not that one, Jerome! For the moment, I'll assume there is no significant difference between black and clear for an interior application. Unless, of course, the Interior Designer weighs in... Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, July 08, 2015 - 11:24 am:    Jerome, you might not be familiar with the part of the IBC that anon references because it would not apply in SFL. Type III vapor retarders (latex or enamel paint) are allowed per IBC under certain conditions in climate zones Marine 4, and 5-8. Check out section 1405 of the IBC for specifics. For your SFL developer client you would want your vapor retarder on the other side of the wall assembly anyway. Maybe the manufacturer was doing you a favor without you realizing it. David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 119 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 10:32 am:    The answer Jerome found regarding seeds in crawl spaces, plants, et al, reads like one of those hilariously mis-informed answers to a grade school essay test question. Thanks, all, for helping me start the day with a good laugh! Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1435 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 10:36 am:    Well it is a googled answer, what do you expect? David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 120 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Friday, July 10, 2015 - 01:23 pm:    I know. You did, after all, suggest refining the search. I have had similar results from google searches.