Rock Salt Concrete Sidewalk

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1380 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 02:23 pm:    I've been asked to prepare several spec sections for a Landscape Architect, Rock Salt Concrete is one such section, as is Oolite Veneer. These materials are new to me, though I have heard of them, would any of my colleagues have prepared these sections in the past and be able to share with me, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 115 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 02:33 pm:    Jerry, I don't know much about geology, but all of my sources indicate that "oolite veneer" and "oolite stone" are names for "oolitic limestone." Luckily, it appears that is readily available in SFL. I am curious about rock salt concrete and am looking into it. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1383 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 02:37 pm:    David, if you look on the concretenetwork.com website there is an explanation of Rock Salt Finish, very interesting, though in 25 years I've never had the opportunity of specifying it. David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 116 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 02:46 pm:    Jerome, we must be on the same wavelength. I just visited the same site. Because it is a special finish, I suppose qualifications of the installer would be an important aspect of the spec for this. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 911 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 03:21 pm:    Jerry, from your first post it would seem that Oolitic limestone veneer is separate from the rock salt concrete finish. Do you have access to Division 04 in MasterSpec? They have stone specs that include limestone veneer. Looking at the website you posted, it seems that the rock salt finish is now available as a stamped concrete process - http://www.concretenetwork.com/rock-salt-finish/tools.html Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1309 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 03:31 pm:    Although it shouldn't be a problem in your neck of the woods, Jerome, salt concrete finish should probably be avoided where freeze/thaw cycles are common. Water that collects in the cavities of the surface will expand when frozen and over time the surface of the concrete paving will be nothing but a spall nightmare. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1385 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 03:36 pm:    Thanks Ron, when I write the spec section I will include a disclaimer on that, I do expect the section to be used in Florida, but the Landscape Architect is a well recognized firm, its sort of an honor for me to be asked to prepare specs for them, this is one of those firms that gets all the awards for their creativity. Richard L Matteo, AIA, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: rlmat Post Number: 670 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 03:45 pm:    Jerome, - Growing up in the Northeast, it's difficult for me not to cringe when I see rock salt and concrete used in the same sentence. That being said, I've seen a lot of it out here in southern California, but I still don't recommend it. it's a horrible finish, I don't think it's that slip resistant and it tends to hold the dirt and is difficult to clean, thereby making it look ugly. I don't specify it and prefer the "broom finish" instead. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 912 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 04:20 pm:    Richard, I know what you mean. Creating crevices by inserting salt into concrete and then adding water makes me wonder how long the concrete will last before the rebar 'blooms' with rust and blows out the concrete, regardless of location. Bet it looks great in photographs right after it's been cleaned and before it gets walked on though. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 842 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 05:57 pm:    Rock salt finish is used (or used to be used) a lot in Hawaii. I have used it once or twice here in the Houston area in the last 15 or 16 years. It basically entails broadcasting coarse rock salt into troweled concrete while it is still somewhat plastic. The rock salt is pressed into the plastic surface and then washed off after the concrete has set. The rock salt needs to be screened to obtain a size between about 1/8 to 3/16 inch and 3/8 inch. The broadcast rate may vary depending on how many "pukas" (holes) you want per square foot. If you are unsure, get a mockup. There is a specification for in in MasterSpec's concrete paving section. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 47 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 08:25 pm:    If the concrete is integrally colored: "Salt Pocked - Rock salt is pressed into the surface after finishing. After 24 hours, the salt is washed away with water and a brush. Remove all traces of salt. Allow surface and pockets to dry before applying curing compound. Finish is not recommended in cold areas where water could collect and freeze in pockets."(The following is from www.daviscolors.com/Support/howto) Since curing compound application is delayed, you will have to use a moist curing technique. Be sure to do a sample pour and allow to cure 28 days before observing color. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru Justatim Senior Member Username: justatim Post Number: 73 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 07:37 am:    Having done several oolitic limestone veneer projects years ago (Miami Metro--tell me how well it's lasting), I learned that it's much softer than most other limestone and was applied in about 2 in. thickness. The typical method consisted of installing the stone units on mortar "dots" on backup CMU (allowing concealed drainage---yes, it's that porous). Then ringshank nails (about 1 per sq. ft.) were driven at a slightly downward angle through predrilled holes in the stone to mechanically secure it. The nail heads were recessed 1/4 inch and the recess over the nailhead was patched. The heavily textured surface finish concealed the patched nail holes very well. John Regener, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: john_regener Post Number: 746 Registered: 04-2002 Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 04:30 pm:    Salt textured concrete is achieved by seeding rock salt on the plastic concrete surface. After the concrete is cured, the surface is washed, dissolving the salt and leaving a void the sized and shape of the salt crystal. I have seen it used in order to create a slip-resistant surface, often at swimming pool decks. Good luck quantifying or specifying the coefficient of friction. Also, consider the dust and crud which fills the void. Then when wetted, a very slippery slime spreads across the flat surfaces. Can you say, "slip and fall lawsuit?" But pools decks and walking surfaces in Florida never get wet, so why worry? What do our lurking legal experts think? Justatim Senior Member Username: justatim Post Number: 74 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 07:26 am:    Oh, and I forgot to mention that the oolitic limestone was also back-parged with a light colored mortar, because this stone has a susceptibility to stain from the back.