| Author |
Message |
Hadley Breckenridge
Senior Member
Username: hadleybreck
Post Number: 20
Registered: 07-2018
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2020 - 12:22 pm: |    |
Does anyone know where the city gets its specs from? not Masterspecs. Anyone? I'm looking at the COA. we are working on a road project - and the waterlines along it. I also have no idea where the DOT gets their specs from. anyone have an answer for that one- I would greatly appreciate it.
thank you |
William C. Pegues
Senior Member
Username: wpegues
Post Number: 989
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2020 - 12:30 pm: | |
City/jurisdiction in question? Different ones use different systems, or none at all.
William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP |
Dave Metzger
Senior Member
Username: davemetzger
Post Number: 773
Registered: 07-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2020 - 12:42 pm: | |
As an architect, this is not something I've ever thought about before. Both the Federal Highway Administration (US DOT) and AASHTO have standard specifications, so I'd guess that city and state DOT's are based on those or similar standards.
And also, given the inertia against change of most beaurecracies, that most of those city and state DOT specs have been around since the earth was young. |
guest (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2020 - 12:49 pm: | |
Without reading each jurisdiction's standard specs, I would presume, as MUTCD specs, the basis for most/many roads/transportation-related specifications, originate from FHWA standard specs. Where FHWA's specs originate, who knows? I'm curious, why might you need to trace back to origins...of the first/original specifier? |
Ronald L. Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 1584
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2020 - 12:58 pm: | |
From my experience, DOTs across the country seem to follow their own specifications. Most seem to have originated from a standard format that somebody somewhere promulgated and it has now spread through the DOTs at what seems like all jurisdictional levels.
Ron Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP
|
John Bunzick
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 1817
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2020 - 01:56 pm: | |
I'm not sure what state you are in. It's been a while, but as I last recall, Massachusetts DOT had a standard spec that was referenced for civil engineering work done on behalf of the Commonwealth and municipalities. It was sometimes referenced (years ago) by architects for things like asphalt paving, but I'm not sure whether that's common now. These were developed over many years, and included not only the typical technical requirements, such as bituminous concrete mix design, but measurement and payment, and other contract-centric sorts of provisions. AASHTO is a likely source of material for "horizontal construction" standards today. They sponsor a lot of research on paving designs, soil mechanics, and other similar topics.
This type of construction has different contracting methods, different governing law (for public construction), different contract forms, and different customs than conventional buildings ("vertical construction"). It also falls outside of the purview of local building departments and building construction agencies on the state level. So, it's an entirely different animal. |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 542
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 27, 2020 - 02:25 pm: | |
Public works in California rely on "Greenbook" published by a consortium of industry associations and agencies. See http://www.greenbookspecs.org/history.asp
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru |
Paul Sweet (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 01:30 pm: | |
Virginia has its own specs for roads, and they are typically referenced for driveways, parking areas, and sidewalks on private sector projects as well as government projects.
http://www.virginiadot.org/business/const/spec-default.asp
I think most, if not all, states have their own standards and specs for this type of work. |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1288
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 03:12 pm: | |
My guess is that the DOT 'standard specs' predate "CSI Format" by a lot. Many jurisdictions I've worked with are frustrated with it and want to change to industry standard (MasterFormat) but can't beat the inertia. Some now require specs using MasterFormat numbering and include their old, established standards by reference within the reformatted specs. Example would be to have Section 321613 Curbs and Gutters include DOT Section 609 by reference. |
John Bunzick
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 1818
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 04:40 pm: | |
I got curious so I just looked up Massdot's standard specifications for highways and bridges. It's 840 pages and covers everything. I think in this way they can let a contract and just say "follow this book." They have a separate 140 page book of details. |
Ed Storer
Senior Member
Username: ed_storer
Post Number: 62
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 28, 2020 - 06:05 pm: | |
Decades ago, most state and local standard specs were based on the "standard" specs published by APWA (American Public Works Association).
It covered everything that a civil engineer needed except structural design of bridges - pavement, earthwork, water lines, sewers.
Government entities adapted it to local practices and availability of matererials. We all know how much is budgeted to keeping specs updated.
AWWA (American Waterworks Association) is another source for jurisdictional specs.
Ed Storer, CSI Member Emeritus |
Mark Gilligan SE,
Senior Member
Username: mark_gilligan
Post Number: 941
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - 04:01 pm: | |
My understanding is that the State DOT specifications are not adopted as regulations thus they are not legally required on private work. I am having difficulty in finding any support for the idea that private bridges are covered by the IBC.
State DOT specifications work in the context of the way the state contracts for this work.
On a private project you need to make sure that the references to State Bridge Specs make are coordinated with the owner contractor agreement because they were not developed in the context of contracts used on typical private projects . |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1289
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 - 04:46 pm: | |
Probably true Mark, but you still need to find out what limitations your local fire department puts on bridges and paving that will provide their trucks access to your property. Many fire departments are funny about not wanting to drive or park on pavement that does not meet specific DOT requirements.
As an aside, when using DOT type standard specs keep in mind that their measurement and payment requirements are typically geared towards Unit Cost Contracts, not lump sum. Consider modifying that content to suit your needs. |
Ed Storer
Senior Member
Username: ed_storer
Post Number: 68
Registered: 05-2009
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 04, 2020 - 09:33 pm: | |
Decades ago, when I was working for an E/A firm doing some civil works, the de facto basis for spec was APWA (American Public Works Association).
I just looked them up and APWA still exists but it appears that they no longer publish a "standard" specification.
If you could trace the genealogy of most state and municipal standard specifications, I'm pretty sure that you'd find APWA as a granddaddy.
Ed Storer, CSI Member Emeritus |
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