| Author |
Message |
Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: louis_medcalf
Post Number: 113
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 04:48 pm: |    |
MasterFormat does not have a category for glass railings and wind screens that have a metal anchorage shoe and sometimes a channel at the top edge. Section 057313 Glazed Decorative Metal Railings seems to be for systems where the steel posts and rails are structural and the glass is guard panel infill. What do you think--should we spec structural glass railings in Section 057313 or assign a new number, possibly in Divison 08 with other glass fabrications?
The Hermitage Hermit |
Brian Payne
Senior Member
Username: brian_payne
Post Number: 211
Registered: 01-2014
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 05:00 pm: | |
BSD unfortunately uses 05 7000 Decorative Metals for that. Way too general of a section in my opinion. I probably would tweak 057313 if it was me...or possibly use 05 7316 or 05 7319 whichever is available. |
Marc Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 590
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 05:08 pm: | |
hummm. Am I missing some part of this conversation...isn't
05 73 13 Glazed Decorative Metal Railings the section. that is where we have it and that number is included in MasterFormat '18 |
Rosa Cheney
Senior Member
Username: rdcaia
Post Number: 13
Registered: 07-2018
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 05:16 pm: | |
AIA Masterspec includes structural-glass railings in 057313, and I do not see anything in MasterFormat that would preclude that.
MasterFormat does have 323500 Screening Devices for "self-supporting walls for noise control, safety, protection, and privacy". If your structural-glass railings are in fact screens (taller than railings?) then maybe that would be the section to put them in.
MasterFormat also has screens in Division 10, but they are under the heading Grilles and Screens which would lead me to believe the screens should be perforated in some way, and not solid screens like I imagine the all-glass ones you describe to be. |
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan
Post Number: 1124
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 05:23 pm: | |
Rosa, check again; its there.
J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP
|
Rosa Cheney
Senior Member
Username: rdcaia
Post Number: 14
Registered: 07-2018
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 05:56 pm: | |
Yes, I said it was there. |
Gail Ann J. Goldstead, AIA, CSI, CDT, LEED AP, BD+C
Senior Member
Username: ggoldstead
Post Number: 26
Registered: 03-2015
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 06:38 pm: | |
To Louis Medcalf's point, I recommend keeping it in the same spec section, because it's more helpful to keep the number of sections more consolidated than to have a larger number of sections in the project spec. Sometime our office uses a broader scope MF #.
Gail Goldstead |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1277
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 11, 2020 - 07:17 pm: | |
Louis, I get your point that glazed decorative metal railings seems to be metal railing systems with glass infill which is substantially different than glass supported railings (and windscreens for that matter). I've had the same question in the past and usually just used 057315 for the glass-supported railing Section. I've wondered if something under the 088800 listing would make sense for glass supported systems. |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 1806
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 - 04:01 pm: | |
As Marc noted, MasterSpec includes these in Section 057313 Glazed Decorative Metal Railings. MasterFormat also uses this same number, and it does not preclude glass-supported railings from being here (no MF note or reference otherwise). Are you suggesting that glass-supported railings should have a unique MasterFormat number? I'd support that, as they are somewhat different. As to using them as a wind screen; I'm not sure that there's really a difference, other than the code-mandated load requirements may not apply depending on the conditions. |
Mark Gilligan SE,
Senior Member
Username: mark_gilligan
Post Number: 933
Registered: 10-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 12, 2020 - 06:00 pm: | |
The Code mandated loads always apply and if not what about the impact of wind and individuals pushing on the railing. |
Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: louis_medcalf
Post Number: 114
Registered: 11-2010
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 12:39 pm: | |
Thanks for all the high-powered thinking!
Hermitage Hermit |
John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP
Senior Member
Username: bunzick
Post Number: 1807
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 03:17 pm: | |
Mark, of course wind and live loads would need to be accounted for. I was thinking about a condition where the walking surface was the same elevation on both sides. Would load requirements for guards apply there? |
Marc Chavez
Senior Member
Username: mchavez
Post Number: 592
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 13, 2020 - 03:24 pm: | |
if both surfaces are at the same level you dont need a guard. |
T.J. Simons, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: tsimons
Post Number: 30
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2020 - 07:10 pm: | |
I agree with the current MF number for glazed decorative railings; we specify our glass-supported railing systems in that Section. However, I'm wondering if we ought to have a section or two (or just suffixes to 05 73 13) for a couple of other items. I'm thinking about glass smoke baffle systems, and glass windscreen assemblies, which are often taller than Code required guardrail height, and can be subject to high wind loads. These are made of some of the same components but have different functions and performance requirements. |
Dave Metzger
Senior Member
Username: davemetzger
Post Number: 766
Registered: 07-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 14, 2020 - 07:33 pm: | |
MasterFormat Section 078700 Smoke Containment Barriers notes “Includes: draftstopping panels suspended from the ceiling or placed in plenum cavities to prevent or to inhibit the spread of smoke”.
That said, when I’ve specified glass smoke baffles and glass windscreen assemblies, it has been as children of 088000. |
T.J. Simons, CSI, CCS
Senior Member
Username: tsimons
Post Number: 31
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 15, 2020 - 12:46 pm: | |
Thanks, Dave-I am leaning that way myself. While the metal components are important, the primary material in each one of these assemblies is glass, so it seems logical for it to be Division 08 work and not Division 05. We work with a couple of building envelope consultants who have developed various Division 08 sections for glass windscreen assemblies above grade which are subject to high wind loads |
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