Spelling Errors on Drawings

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 2023 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 12:33 pm:    Pulling my hair out over numerous spelling errors on recent drawings from a 20yr+ client. My favorite is "cementitious" spelled with 2 C's as "cementicious". Does anyone have a good response to the architect who does not seem to care. IMHO this is a slap in the face and allows the contractor to ridicule the Architect. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 749 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 12:39 pm:    Gee, Jerry, based on the various 4specs threads on drawing errors and the like, contributors to 4specs have been ridiculing architects for years. Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 2024 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 12:42 pm:    nice to hear from you too David. Seriously what do you tell your clients regarding insane spelling errors on their drawings. Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 12:44 pm:    When I notice spelling errors on the drawings, I now just ignore them, unless I believe that they could mislead people and lead to the wrong results. I realized I was spending too much time letting architects know about every little spelling error that I noticed, so I just let them know about those that I believe could lead to problems. In the same way that lots of the people producing the drawings don't notice the slightly misspelled words, many of the people working with the drawings (contractor) also don't notice the slightly misspelled words. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 750 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 12:53 pm:    Seriously, I agree with Liz. With tight project schedules and limited time, I'd comment on spelling or terminology errors only where the intent is unclear or they could be misunderstood. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 1095 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 12:55 pm:    How about "flog pole" for "flag pole" on a public school project? Seriously, most CAD software has spell check built into it. Although it won't catch every thin, it could go a long way. My attitude is more like Liz's. I have to concentrate on really egregious issues like "Field apply powder-coated clear anodized finish to exposed steel structure" (not a real note, but the real one is just as bad. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 2025 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 01:04 pm:    David, Liz perhaps you are right, on this job "cementicious" is repeated at least 100 times, cementicious board, cementicious precast panel, cementicious trim...same drawings call for Exterior Drywall, Asphalt Roof Tile, R-19 Roofing, I could just scream. Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 463 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 02:06 pm:    Personally I can think of several projects that need a "flog pole." Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2189 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 03:07 pm:    One of my favorites called for a "repelling wall" on a fire training facility. That brought up wonderful images; Harry Potter and all. John Hunter Senior Member Username: johnhunter Post Number: 162 Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 03:49 pm:    Although it's been a while since I've looked at it, my recollection is that in Civitello's "Contractor's Guide to Change Orders" one of the things identified as a red-flag is misspellings in Documents (Drawings & Specs). This was considered to be an indicator of a less-than-diligent document effort which meant the Contractor would be well-advised to examine the documents carefully for potential change orders because, if the design team doesn't care about spelling, it's probable that they don't care about other things as well. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 03:31 pm:    Are the spelling errors/typos in J. Peter Jordan's post above a Freudian slip of some type, or placed there intentionally to see who is paying attention? "Seriously, most CAD software has spell check built into it. Although it won't catch every thin [sic], it could go a long way." You're right. It wouldn't have caught this error. It also wouldn't have caught the missing closed parenthesis. More to the original question ... I'll point them out if I notice them. Usually it is just a cloud with comment "spelling?" ... if I notice it over and over again I might add "update throughout" and ignore the remaining instances. Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 2026 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 04:11 pm:    thanks John, Civtello's book is an excellent source, I forgot I had it in my library, perhaps because I have it in hardback, who has time to look at books that are not digital. James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 270 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Friday, June 21, 2019 - 08:47 am:    I just enjoy them as a light form of entertainment unless, like Liz points out, they could be misleading. Keep in mind too, many who place notes on drawings did not "grow up" with English, which is a language given to many mysterious spellings [is it through, or is it threw, or is it throo?]. For those who did come from an English speaking home, well . . . David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 302 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Saturday, June 22, 2019 - 09:53 am:    I was upset when my kids (now in their twenties) were encouraged by their primary school teachers to write without regard to spelling. There was a period in the 90s and early 2000s when emphasis on correct spelling was thought to discourage kids from expressing themselves in their writing. I insisted they were smart enough to express themselves AND spell correctly at the same time. Standard spelling is something one learns very early and it sticks, and poor spelling habits are very hard to unlearn. As several of you have pointed out, incorrectly spelled words are almost never deal-breakers, but with all of the tools we have, we should be close to perfect. Punctuation errors, on the other hand, can be deal-breakers. James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 272 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Monday, June 24, 2019 - 09:00 am:    I had the world's meanest English teachers in junior high and high school and I am ever so grateful for that today. My 7th grade English teacher said to the class on the first day "Analyze and criticize and I won't penalize." I'm sure many of us didn't know what that meant at the time but we soon learned. I was blessed, or cursed, to be placed in a freshman honors composition class in college. Everyone made an A in the class because the professor simply returned every paper we presented to him with mistakes circled in red pen. It was our responsibility to determine what the mistake was and correct it. I turned one paper in three times before it was expunged of errors! By the end of the semester all students had turned in A-level work. Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: louis_medcalf Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 09:11 am:    I don't get too bothered by reversals, since my old fingers occasionally do that also. More meaningful are homonyms, like 'coarse' instead of 'course.' Alas, some misspellings have to do with just plain ignorance and the drafter being unwilling to ask about the term before writing a drawing note. As an example, a while back I saw "sheeps ladder" on the drawings that calls up a memorable image. Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 04:38 pm:    Sheeps' Ladder Greta Eckhardt Senior Member Username: gretaeckhardt Post Number: 96 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 04:45 pm:    Nice photo, although I am concerned about the future of the sheep after they reach the top rung... Note: The phrase should be "sheep's ladder" since the word sheep is already plural. Dan Helphrey Senior Member Username: dbhelphrey Post Number: 24 Registered: 12-2018 Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 05:03 pm:    Good catch on the misplaced apostrophe. Ron Beard Senior Member Username: rm_beard_ccs Post Number: 460 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 05:42 pm:    Spelling is only a part of the communications problem. A friend recently related the following to me pertaining to his child’s new school room teacher. His child was home schooled until the 5th grade and learned to write in cursive. Immediately after their first homework assignment, the teacher confronted the child about using cursive writing and demanded that it not be used in the future. Turned out that the teacher couldn’t read the cursive text. "Fast is good, but accurate is better." .............Wyatt Earp Paul Brosnahan (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 03:25 pm:    Drafter must have been around too many Aussies! James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 275 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 10:43 am:    If sheep is plural what is the singular form? This reminds me of the old joke about the zoo keeper who wanted two of the species Alces alces. Not knowing what the plural of the common name was he wrote to the purveyor of such animals "Please send me an adult moose and, while you are at, it send another one." Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2192 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 11:10 am:    Ron, that is incredibly sad. I think I just might approach the school - principal, board - and try to resolve that issue in another way besides a "demand" that the child dumb down. Greta Eckhardt Senior Member Username: gretaeckhardt Post Number: 97 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 11:57 am:    My only reason for making the comment about sheeps' versus sheep's is that English is a complicated language and it is really impressive when we get it 99% correct. I am sure there have been typos (or is that typo's?) in my postings. I think the main thing is that we want to make our work look as if we checked it over once or twice before issuing it, and misspellings can send the wrong message. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2193 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2019 - 12:06 pm:    Misspellings and bad punctuation/grammar definitely send messages: the owner of the documents doesn't care, can't be bothered to check, or doesn't know better. Careless errors lead me to question "what else is wrong or carelessly done"? It's usually easy to distinguish between typos and true errors. Words like "hte" are clearly typos, and I'm likely to forgive those. But as in the example I posted earlier in this thread, "repelling" is definitely a case of the writer not knowing the correct word (even if I did get a laugh out of it). James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 276 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 10:15 am:    Greta, you are so right about English being complicated. German, by comparison, is relatively easy. I guess the complication is what makes the language so versatile and, in some ways, fun. Shakespeare with his clever turn-of-phase and Norm Crosby with his malapropisms sure had fun with it. By the way, I wonder why it is "sure" and not "Shure." Perhaps the microphone company already had a copyright on the latter. :-) Yikes! Why is this image so large? George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 895 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 01:47 pm:    "Sugar" is the only word in the English language that starts in "su" but uses the "sh" sound. I'm sure of that fact. George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: geverding Post Number: 896 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 01:53 pm:    BTW, I'm presenting "Effective Writing for Construction Professionals" at CONSTRUCT in October, and probably won't mention spelling because of time constraints. Mis-punctuation is more likely to cause confusion in writing than misspelling. Spelling errors are humorous (see above) but proper punctuation saves lives: "Let's eat, Grandma!" "Let's eat Grandma!" James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 277 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 02:27 pm:    "BTW, I'm presenting "Effective Writing for Construction Professionals" at CONSTRUCT in October" George, I cannot think of a better person to give that presentation. Unfortunately, I will not be able to attend but the Houston Chapter Foundation has given two grants to emerging professionals in the chapter to cover their expenses for CONSTRUCT. I will be "shoore" to urge them to attend your presentation. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, June 27, 2019 - 02:36 pm:    Remember that the Construction Specifications Practice Guide states, "Sentences should be constructed so that the misplacement or elimination of a punctuation mark will not change the meaning." Of course, without trying to dig up the old Oxford comma debate, it also says, "Commas should be used after each item in a series, including the item preceding a conjunction, and in other locations where the clarity of the statement will be improved." So while you should avoid the sentence structure that would lead to cannibalism if your specifications would need to have such a statement commanding Grandma to eat to eat with you, you should also include the comma if it helps the clarity of the sentence (saving Grandma's life would be important clarity I would think).