| Author |
Message |
Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP, LEED AP BD+C
Senior Member
Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip
Post Number: 467
Registered: 02-2014
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 19, 2019 - 11:24 pm: |    |
This musty old thread came back to my attention recently, and I researched to find out the current status of "must" vs. "shall". It seemed "must" might be losing ground. I was wrong. Now I am seeing "the Contractor must" and various other new "must" sentence construction littered all over the UFGS/SpecsIntact world instead of "the Contractor shall", etc. If they were going to take all that time to proofread every such change, why not do it right and use streamlined and imperative sentence construction?
Sigh.
http://discus.4specs.com/discus/messages/3062/1279.html |
Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP, LEED AP BD+C
Senior Member
Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip
Post Number: 468
Registered: 02-2014
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 04:29 am: | |
"Must" can also mean something that is logically very likely.
E.g. there must be something wrong with these attorneys who say "shall" is the most litigated word. I bet there must be some contracts under litigation because they used the word "must", too.
Hmmm, I must have forgotten to switch the laundry over.
It's so cold even though the heat keeps running, there must be a draft.
Wow, it smells like there must be a rotten egg around here!
None of that creates an absolute obligation.
Mr. Contactor, don't you know that "must" means you had an obligation? No your honor, I thought it was just logically very likely. |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 2185
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 10:30 am: | |
And then there's "musty". Something smells odd here. |
J. Peter Jordan
Senior Member
Username: jpjordan
Post Number: 1071
Registered: 05-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 10:49 am: | |
Everyone knows that specifications are just vague suggestions.
J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP
|
Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap
Senior Member
Username: lgoodrob
Post Number: 359
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 11:56 am: | |
And just vague suggestions that apply to someone else. |
Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC
Senior Member
Username: redseca2
Post Number: 665
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 04:09 pm: | |
Proper handling of the must must be the first step towards a good bottle of wine. |
George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: geverding
Post Number: 890
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 04:36 pm: | |
Must is more directive than should. The contractor should confirm substrate is dry before painting.
I know I should have, but I didn't. Thanks for the great suggestion. Maybe I will on the next job. Where's my check? |
Robert Swan, FCSI, SCIP
Advanced Member
Username: robeswan
Post Number: 5
Registered: 12-2016
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - 11:35 am: | |
Just to keep life interesting "Shall" is being kicked around see:
https://axaxl.com/fast-fast-foward/articles/design-professional-prespective_what-shall-we-do-about-shall
Apparently the federal procurement guidelines are split on the meaning of shall. |
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1765
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - 01:06 pm: | |
I have a workaround.....don't use "shall". ;-)
"The Contractor shall paint the wall." to "Paint the wall."
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC |
Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEED® AP SCIP Affiliate
Senior Member
Username: lynn_javoroski
Post Number: 2187
Registered: 07-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - 03:39 pm: | |
Robert, the link is broken:
"404 - Page Not Found
Sorry but the page you are looking for cannot be found. Try one of the following options or use the search bar.
AXA XL
XL Insurance
XL Reinsurance" |
Dewayne Dean
Senior Member
Username: ddean
Post Number: 193
Registered: 02-2016
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 17, 2019 - 05:10 pm: | |
try this one
https://axaxl.com/fast-fast-forward/articles/design-professional-perspective_what-shall-we-do-about-shall |
James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: jsandoz
Post Number: 263
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2019 - 08:39 am: | |
The article in the link Dewayne provided is interesting and useful. It seems the architect or specification writer does not have much, if any, control over what is in the Agreement or standard forms but in my technical specifications especially I avoid the word "shall" and use the imperative mood almost exclusively:
"Submit samples."
"Paint the wall."
"Bring doughnuts to project meetings." :-) |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 895
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2019 - 11:32 am: | |
SPECIFICATION CONVENTIONS
Imperative mood and streamlined language are generally used in the Specifications.
The words "shall," "shall be," or "shall comply with," depending on the context, are implied where a colon [:] is used within a sentence or phrase. |
Jerome J. Lazar, CCS, CSI
Senior Member
Username: lazarcitec
Post Number: 1998
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2019 - 06:07 pm: | |
Wayne, pls explain why I should avoid using the word "shall". of "Shall be", after reading this thread I searched my specs and I am guilty, so why should I be concerned? Be gentle, have not slept in 18 hours. |
anon (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Thursday, April 18, 2019 - 07:08 pm: | |
The article referenced/linked in this thread states that using "shall" is OK:
“To correctly use ‘shall’,” writes Bryan A. Garner, editor-in-chief of Black’s Law Dictionary, “confine it to the meaning ‘has a duty to’ and use it to impose a duty on a capable actor.”
That makes sense from a Form of Agreement/General Conditions point of view, when the word "shall" is directed to a "capable actor", but what about the following examples (straight outta MasterSpec)?:
1. "Retesting of products that fail to meet specified requirements shall be done at Contractor's expense."
2. "Structural Performance: Railings, including attachment to building construction, shall withstand the effects of gravity loads..."
3. "Safety Glazing: Glazing shall comply with 16 CFR 1201, Category II."
This duty in using "shall" in the above examples clearly does not apply. The MasterSpec language that Wayne cites helps, but not only with respect to the colon! What about the word 'shall' that follows in these examples?
How do the railings have a duty to withstand the effects of gravity loads?
ugh. what a mess. |
James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA
Senior Member
Username: jsandoz
Post Number: 264
Registered: 06-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2019 - 08:49 am: | |
Since the specifications are directed to the capable actor (the Contractor) MasterSpec could have written:
1. Retesting: Bear the cost of retesting products that fail to meet specified requirements.
2: Structural Performance: Provide railings, including attachment to building construction, that withstand gravity loads.
3. Safety Glazing: Comply with 16 CFR1201, Category II
Note after each subparagraph heading and colon the next word is a verb (imperative mood). Note also this streamlined style saves a few words in each case though this is not a major benefit. Finally, "bear" in this case means to absorb (verb) not the big, hairy thing that can eat you (noun). :-)
Item 1. has 13 words instead of 15.
Item 2. has 13 words instead of 15.
Item 3. has 6 words instead of 8. |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 896
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, April 19, 2019 - 12:15 pm: | |
Jerome,
Sorry for the tardy reply.
I am quoting from the CSI Specifications Practice Guide, 1.5.4 "The imperative mood should generally be maintained throughout a specification. Consistent use of terminology and language contributes to better communication. Avoid duplicating or contradicting requirements contained elsewhere in the project manual. Because the contractor and owner are the only parties to the owner-contractor agreement, all instructions are addressed to the contractor. The words “the contractor shall” are generally omitted but may be added for clarity when both parties to the contract are mentioned in the same article or paragraph. Do not address individual subcontractors or trades. References to a specific responsibility should be made to the specification section."
From Chapter 2 Language, 2.3 Vocabulary.
"Shall and Will: Shall is used as an imperative in reference to the work required to be done by a contractor. Will is optional and is used in connection with acts and actions required of the owner or the architect/engineer (A/E).
Must and is to are not recommended."
From 2.5 Sentence Structure, 2.52 Indicative Mood.
"The indicative mood, passive voice requires the use of shall in nearly every statement. This sentence structure can cause unnecessary wordiness and monotony:
• Adhesive shall be spread with notched trowel.
• Equipment shall be installed plumb and level.
• Two coats of paint shall be applied to each exposed surface.
Versus Imperative Mood - My prefered mood.
pread adhesive with notched trowel.
• Spread adhesive with notched trowel.
• Install equipment plumb and level.
• Apply two coats of paint to each exposed surface.
This is my "STANDARD OF CARE"
I avoid being wordy and monotinous. However, I can still be monotinous because I am required to continually ask, beg, and request for answers to questions. I ask to many questions and need to many drawings.
I was once accused of being rude when I used the imperative mood in e-mails (circa 1990). I was requested to start each imperative sentence with "please."
That is all I have to say about that.
Forest Gump |
Sheldon Wolfe
Senior Member
Username: sheldon_wolfe
Post Number: 1030
Registered: 01-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 22, 2019 - 01:06 am: | |
My favorite attorney, Ken Adams, is a firm believer that shall means shall. This article includes a couple of links to other posts; all are good reading.
One of those links leads to another post on his blog, Does Shall Mean Should?. In this discussion, the thing that baffles me is how courts decide that "shall" is to be interpreted as "should." 'In context, the word “shall” may reasonably be understood as “should,” a precatory encouragement to the parties to work matters out.” … Because the word “shall” may reasonably be construed to mean either “should” or “must,” the court finds that its meaning is unclear.'
Without clear, mutually exclusive definitions, how can we create documents that are not subject to interpretation, and how is a reader to know which definition is the one in use?
I'll continue to use shall to mean shall, but at the moment I can't think of a reason to use it in specifications. Division 00 is another matter; it's written as a description of responsibilities, and so makes shall a useful, even necessary word. |
Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP, LEED AP BD+C
Senior Member
Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip
Post Number: 471
Registered: 02-2014
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 24, 2019 - 12:16 pm: | |
I'd love to get rid of both shall and must. But when working on SpecsIntact projects that would be a monumental task, since the UFGS specs have long been filled with instances of "shall". Now, when I see some "shall" remaining, perhaps someone could say it oughta be changed to "must". Good grief. |
|
4specs.com Home Page