Product Material Safety (post constru...

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1939 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 05:50 am:    A client has requested I review materials selected by another Consultant no longer working on the project. These are interior finish products which I reviewed along with the Architect and Owner's Representative, some products received a thumbs up, some a thumbs down and were eliminated from the project. The Architect would like me to issue a "formal document" advising that the materials are safe to use according to industry standards. I am not comfortable with providing any document that declares a product is safe. Any suggestions? Greta Eckhardt Senior Member Username: gretaeckhardt Post Number: 85 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 07:33 am:    Jerome, I agree with your concern about making a statement about product safety. One approach might be to look at the product data to see whether they have been certified according to any of the "green" testing protocols, such as Greenguard, CRI Green Label Plus, Cradle-to-Cradle, etc. and make a list of which products have which certifications. These certifications do not prove that a product is "safe" but they indicate that some level of evaluation or testing has been done to evaluate potential toxic ingredients. When you submit the list of products/certifications, you don't need to use the word "safe", just offer references where the client can read more about what the certifications mean. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1940 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 11:35 am:    Greta, this is a Condominium, there is no Green Building Criteria. Good suggestion though. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 868 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 12:30 pm:    Do you have a contractual obligation to make such a statement? Suggest that you provide the information you have and defer to the project architect. Ask them to define safe. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1941 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 01:05 pm:    The "safe" word/request came from the Project Architect. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1942 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 01:09 pm:    Mark, the question could pertain to any project, as Specifiers, are we selecting products that are safe for the user? Actually, I do not select products, contractually the selection of products is the responsibility of the Architect. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 434 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 02:22 pm:    Most products that are covered by industry standards are "safe to use" when used according to industry standards. However, 1. Many products are not covered by standards. 2. Most standards cover things that do not affect safety (such as colorfastness). 3. Most safety failures are not due to product issues but to their incorrect use in building systems and assemblies. 4. Many of the products you specify are according to reference standards; the contractor is picking actual products. You should not take responsibility for that. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru Ronald L. Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1520 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 03:54 pm:    My professional liability insurer recommended I add the following to my agreements, which I did: "Certifications: RLGA shall not be required to sign any documents, no matter by whom requested, that would result in RLGA’s having to certify, guaranty, or warrant the existence of conditions that RLGA cannot ascertain." Ron Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1736 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 03:54 pm:    I too am wondering what the word "safe" means. Slip resistant? Fireproof? Structurally sound? Bulletproof? Low or no VOC's? No Red List materials? Fit for human consumption? What happens if you do the research on the building products and find that some of the products are not "safe"? Taking responsibility (and liability) for another person's selections sounds like a really bad idea. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1943 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 03:58 pm:    The Architect has withdrawn the word "safe", unfortunately this is a condo, so at some point the Condo Vultures will ask. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1944 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 03:59 pm:    Well at least we have no Chinese Drywall, Chinese Porcelain yes. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 869 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Friday, October 26, 2018 - 05:46 pm:    Safe is a relative term. Safe against what hazards? What is an acceptable failure rate? 0 is not an acceptable answer. How will you measure failure? John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1769 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Sunday, October 28, 2018 - 03:28 pm:    About the only thing I can think of that can be done here (short of saying "no") is to ask them what standard(s) they want to conform to, and then check to see if they meet that. Probably, they have no idea what standard would apply. I had a project years ago (before current thinking on indoor air quality existed) where the public client was very worried about it. They hired an industrial hygienist to review all submittals. Maybe they can go that route.