Fiberglass Thermal Spacer Clips

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Author Message Ron Lindow, CSI, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Intermediate Member Username: ron_lindow Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - 05:48 pm:    Since most exterior cladding systems are required to provide their own sub-framing system, where should fiberglass thermal spacer clips (Cascadia Clips/Smartci clips) for exterior wall cladding systems be specified? Simple question when there is only one type of exterior cladding system, but what happens when there are multiple exterior cladding systems? Keeping with CSI's mantra of saying things only once ... Brian Payne, AIA Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 156 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - 05:54 pm:    I created a Rainscreen Support System spec section that covers Knightwall, GreenGirt, Cascadia, Moto Extrusions, etc. which is referenced by MCM, MWP, HPL, FiberCement etc anon (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Wednesday, July 25, 2018 - 06:13 pm:    SECTION 070543 - CLADDING SUPPORT SYSTEMS Edward J Dueppen, RA, CSI, CCS, LEED AP Senior Member Username: edueppen Post Number: 48 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 08:27 am:    Hi Ron, similar to Brian, I created a Section 07 4800 - Rainscreen Attachment System that is cross-referenced in the relevant cladding sections. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 12:29 pm:    I agree with anon. 07 05 43 - Cladding Support Systems was added in 2016 MasterFormat. Seems like the perfect place for these systems. Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: don_harris Post Number: 308 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 01:53 pm:    Are we at the point where using galvanized steel zee clips is not code compliant? The fiberglass spacers are certainly better energy-wise, but every time I bring up the subject, the expense gets thrown back. So, I'd love to come back with "Using zee clips is illegal." Is it truly against code or is it just bad practice? Brian Payne, AIA Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 157 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 01:59 pm:    Is that the sound of a can of worms being opened? If you are using the prescriptive approach in the Energy Conservation Code that requires continuous insulation, the yes. Steel Z-girts do not meet the code definition of fastener, which would make them illegal. If you are using the performanced based approach, than the z-girts will degrade the effective value of the insulation by 60-70& minimum. Technically, as long as that is taken into consideration and you make up for the loss of R-value than you can still use them. Greta Eckhardt Senior Member Username: gretaeckhardt Post Number: 81 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 03:15 pm:    I note that Don said "galvanized steel zee clips" rather than "continuous galvanized steel girts". While clips interrupt the otherwise continuous insulation intermittently, they are definitely an improvement on girts which cause a continuous interruption in the insulation. One could still say that the clips don't quite meet the prescriptive requirements, but the performance-based modeling should show a much smaller degradation of the effective thermal value of the wall assembly. And one could go a step further and use stainless steel which is less conductive than steel, or use a clip product with a thermal break built in. Another possibility is the very slender, stainless steel Stand-Off MPV Brackets offered by Exo-Tec. Brian Payne Senior Member Username: brian_payne Post Number: 158 Registered: 01-2014 Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 03:22 pm:    My bad. I agree. Don Harris CSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA Senior Member Username: don_harris Post Number: 310 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, July 26, 2018 - 04:06 pm:    Thanks, but I meant continuous girts. Good catch. Chris Grimm, CSI, CCS, SCIP, LEED AP BD+C Senior Member Username: chris_grimm_ccs_scip Post Number: 417 Registered: 02-2014 Posted on Friday, July 27, 2018 - 12:29 pm:    This is a timely post since I am also working on consolidating and updating my various cladding support systems specs for C.I., have been polling the manufacturers and they did not have a common place so it is great that MasterFormat has added one. Last time I checked I did not see it there. Note to self, check the "New Listings" section often.