ASTM E985 withdrawn

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Author Message Scott McIntosh-Mize Senior Member Username: scott_mize_ccs_csi Post Number: 109 Registered: 02-2009 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 09:16 am:    Friends and colleagues: ASTM E985 - Standard Specification for Permanent Metal Railing Systems and Rails for Buildings ASTM has withdrawn the referenced standard with no replacement. The reason appears to be the one quoted in another thread, namely that ASTM's policies require that their standards be updated within 8 years of issue (or re-issue). If, for whatever reason, the standard is not reviewed within that time frame, it is withdrawn. Question: On the topic of handrails, what standard (if any) have you been using in lieu of ASTM E985? James Sandoz, AIA, CSI, CCS, CCCA Senior Member Username: jsandoz Post Number: 223 Registered: 06-2005 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 09:48 am:    How about ASTM E 894 - Standard Test Method for Anchorage of Permanent Metal Railing Systems and Rails for Buildings and ASTM E 935 - Standard Test Methods for Performance of Permanent Metal Railing Systems and Rails for Buildings? Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1482 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 10:11 am:    I leave it up to the building code, which establishes minimum loading and dimensional requirements. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1128 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 10:15 am:    Thanks for the heads-up Scott. I agree with Ron. That and ADA. I'm not sure what the purpose was for the ASTM spec. It's not like the Code requirements are new. James, I would include the test methods to verify compliance with Code and ADA requirements. Just curious, does anyone specify manufacturers for standard steel tube railings and pickets? Wayne Yancey Senior Member Username: wayne_yancey Post Number: 843 Registered: 01-2008 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 10:24 am:    I believe ASTM E985 is a fabrication standard. I restrict myself to the code mandated performance requirements. While I am on the line, who amoung you readers is attending ARC-US 2017 in Miami commencing Nov 16th? Thanks, Wayne ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1129 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 10:26 am:    I'm planning on being there. Hope to see you tomorrow! Scott McIntosh-Mize Senior Member Username: scott_mize_ccs_csi Post Number: 110 Registered: 02-2009 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 10:40 am:    Thank you, gentlemen. I'll probably end up deferring to the building code as well. I have a call in to a contact at a railing manufacturer. I expect him to know the state of the art in his industry. If he gives me anything more than we've discussed here, I'll be sure to post it. Thanks again. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 833 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 03:41 pm:    Pay your structural engineer to address the relevant issues. The standard is not needed. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1130 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 04:01 pm:    Mark, is that a commercial message from our favorite Structural PE? Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 339 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 04:12 pm:    You can continue to reference a retired standard if you have a need for it. Include the date of the standard to clarify what you used. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS 1-818-219-4937 www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2131 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 05:28 pm:    From a CSI buddy with R & B Wagner, Inc.: The statement is correct. However in lieu of a replacement, people are still using the ASTM E985 standard as a reference point. Additionally people are leaning on the IBC codes as well as manufacturers test data and ICC ESR accreditation. Hope this helps. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 834 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Thursday, November 16, 2017 - 08:07 pm:    I am not currently soliciting work of the type mentioned. The fact that the standard has been retired should not be a problem since compliance with it is not necessary to comply with the code. In fact blind reliance on the standard does not necessarily insure that the code will be complied with or that the railing system will be safe. This is where you need a structural engineer, more likely the engineer of record on the project. If you mistakenly believe that you need this standard I believe that there is no problem with specifying compliance with a retired standard as long as the contractor can obtain a copy. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 775 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2019 - 10:09 am:    Does anyone happen to have access to ASTM E985 that i can review? Marc Chavez Senior Member Username: mchavez Post Number: 496 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2019 - 10:38 am:    send me a note marcchavez@deltek.com Ronald L. Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1554 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2019 - 10:56 am:    Robin, it is available on MADCAD, which you should have access to through SCIP. Ron Geren, FCSI Lifetime Member, AIA, CCS, CCCA, CSC, SCIP Brett Scarfino (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2019 - 05:38 pm:    ASTM's "Reading Room" might have it freely available for viewing access (though I've found most are antiquated versions).