Shoring and Underpinning

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, NCARB Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1827 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 10:01 am:    The Structural PE on a project has listed within his Related Sections a spec section for "Shoring and Underpinning" but is not providing the spec section. Honestly I thought this was provided by the Structural PE or in submittals by the GC, but I see it is considered a Div 31 spec section. Who prepares this spec section? To be fair, the Structural PE has included "Shoring and reshoring" in their CIP Concrete section, but not in Formwork. Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEED Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 346 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 10:13 am:    I am used to underpinning being provided by structural. I guess in some circumstances a Civil Engineer could provide. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 238 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 11:01 am:    In my experience, it is the structural engineer who details underpinning requirements, but it is addressed by Dwg notes & details -- I have never seen a spec. Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, NCARB Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1828 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 11:23 am:    This Struct PE firm writes very good specs, the firm is one of the larger ones in SFL, but they lack familiarity with the Masterformat hierarchy, even though for this job they are following MF 2016, with a little help from me, in this case they refer to a related spec section for Shoring and Underpinning in Div 2. Its odd in SFL, some Structural PE firms prepare the bare minimum of spec sections while others prepare too many spec sections. Usually the ones who prepare too many copy the specs from a previous job with minimal updates. Is this approach the same in other parts of the country? It is very frustrating, and for the most part none of these Structural PEs belong to CSI. The last time I suggested a firm join CSI, all I received was laughter and the question, why? Well at least they did not ask who CSI was? Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, NCARB Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1829 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 11:28 am:    Jeffrey, I agree with you, I reviewed several larger past projects, looked at the Structural specs on those projects and there were no Sections on Shoring and Underpinning. Unfortunately most Civil Engineers in SFL do not issue book specs or those specs are issued as a separate package (permit) that I am not privy to. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 618 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 12:29 pm:    I was curious and so far have found one 31 41 00 - Shoring and Underpinning for a 2009 large hospital project issued by the SEOR. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 832 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 04:00 pm:    The shoring in the concrete section is a different animal from the shoring of an adjacent building or of an excavation. In my experience the structural engineer for the building's scope does not include shoring of adjacent buildings. The contractor is given responsiblity for the shoring design. I would expect that the shoring specification would be created by the geotechnical engineer with input from the structural engineer for the building. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 708 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 10:05 am:    We have masters for both underpinning and for excavation support. We send these sections to both the geotechnical and structural engineers for their comment and review. The fact that the specific means and methods for excavation support is (generally) a contractor responsibility does not mean that it is not specified, or that it is necessarily a temporary item. In effect, in these sections we specify "support the excavation so that it doesn't collapse, and how you do this is up to you." But when we have had projects in DC near Metro (DC's subway system) stations or tunnels, the architect or owner has engaged a specialist foundation consultant to design the support systems, and to prepare drawings and specifications that were reviewed by Metro and became part of the contract documents; the contractor was not responsible for designing them. Ronald J. Ray, RA, CCS, CCCA, CSI, AIA Senior Member Username: rjray Post Number: 166 Registered: 04-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 11:00 am:    MasterSpec has recently updated Section 315000 - Excavation Support and Protection