| Author |
Message |
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1591
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 01:24 pm: |    |
Can you please give me some tips on writing specifications for General Contractor Construction Manager projects?
With all the multiple bid packages and seemingly endless value engineering changes, I find it difficult to get a firm grasp on the scope of project and even harder to estimate my time in order to prepare a lump sum proposal for the project.
Any advice would be appreciated.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC |
Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, NCARB
Senior Member
Username: lazarcitec
Post Number: 1779
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 01:45 pm: | |
Best advice is to sit down with the GC/CM for one on one discussion with specs from a previous project, they will tell you what they want, than negotiate from there. Every job and scope is different. |
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1592
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 03:10 pm: | |
Jerome,
I have actually done many GC/CM projects. The problem is the projects are becoming more of the 4 C's (convoluted, confusing, complex, and crazy). To be quite honest I am losing my shirt on those projects. I will probably avoid doing GC/CM projects in the future, unless I can figure out a way to make a profit on them.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC |
Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, NCARB
Senior Member
Username: lazarcitec
Post Number: 1780
Registered: 05-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 03:22 pm: | |
A Profit, what's that? Being a one man shop I am not sure how to tell if I make a profit on any job. And as far as GM/CM jobs they have been 4C jobs from day one. Some jobs I believe I do well, some not so well. If the client requests my services again and meets my fee requests, I call it a success, profit or not.
By the way David, I never wear a shirt anymore, one of the advantages of being a one man show. |
Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC
Senior Member
Username: redseca2
Post Number: 594
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 03:23 pm: | |
If the CM has a clear idea of how they want to break the project into bid packages, and they can stick with it, your job will be easier. But often they don't, and snap decisions can mess up the way you set up the specs.
I have come to be defensive when I set up a project that is going to be managed by a GC acting as a CM. The "granularity" of the spec Sections needs to be carefully considered.
We work on a lot of big healthcare projects with 10 year plus design and construction phases. Perhaps at SD we had a Section called 07 92 00 - Joint Sealants. But by the time it is finished that may have divided into multiple increment versions. If you know this ahead of time you do not add that much work for yourself.
A project I created the Design Development Specs for in 2009 is finally reaching completion this fall. We are setting up the photo shoots. I just did "Repair of Existing Epoxy Terrazzo" spec this week to cover some work where the new buildings touch the old, original buildings. Over the years that 07 92 00 became:
07 92 00 - Joint Sealants (Therapy Pool), 11/23/2009; Permit Package E
07 92 05 - Foundation Joint Sealants, 05/22/2009; Permit Package A
07 92 10 - Site Joint Sealants, 07/07/2011; Permit Package F
07 92 20 - Exterior Joint Sealants, 02/16/2011; Permit Package D
07 92 30 - Interior Joint Sealants, 07/29/2011; Permit Package G
Package E is unique because the Therapy Pool was a 10,000 concrete structure built in a single phase with permits issued by the County. Everything else was permitted by OSHPD, the California agency that approves hospitals. OSHPD goes ballistic if you give them drawings and specs where some of the work shown is not part of the permit scope, so you edit each Section to the scope of the permit. |
Guest (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 04:47 pm: | |
I'd advise you to be clear and explicit with your client about the scope of services your fee proposal covers, and the procedures for additional services. If things start to change, you cover this added scope as additional services.
You want me to revise the spec for a second round of VE? That's an additional service, our agreement only covered one round of VE. The second round will cost you $________.
The other option is change from doing a lump sum fee proposal. Change to something else that is more flexible with your compensation vs. your time involved ... assuming the client will be receptive to something other than a lump sum proposal. |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 309
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 - 04:56 pm: | |
On complex projects of ambiguous scope, I give client an hourly rate. I explain that an inhouse specifier would be working on an hourly basis, and they should consider me temp labor on the same basis. It gives the client an incentive to use me efficiently, and I do not lose money.
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 |
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1608
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 04:13 pm: | |
I have decided that I will no longer write specifications GC/CM projects. These projects are too complicated, too much value engineering, too many delays, too many bid packages, etc. There is no way I can prepare a proposal for something that is such a moving target.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 320
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 07:34 pm: | |
David - There is a simple way to prepare a proposal -- give an hourly rate, with bonus pay for rush turn around time on changes.
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 |
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1609
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 08:35 pm: | |
Michael,
I have tried proposing hourly but I was rejected. I think the architect realizes that GC/CM projects are lots of additional work.
I would like to modify my post above and substitute the word "complex" with "convoluted". My experience is that GC/CM projects are not any more complex than design/bid/build projects. GC/CM project are just very convoluted and confusing and unnecessarily so.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 321
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2017 - 09:02 pm: | |
Never be afraid to make proposals that aren't accepted. I used to spend hours trying to estimate jobs. Now I just quote fee. I win and lose about the same percent of projects -- but don't waste time on estimating and don't lose money by underbidding. It took me decades to figure that out.
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 |
Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
Senior Member
Username: specman
Post Number: 1469
Registered: 03-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 04:12 pm: | |
I submit proposals by breaking down my fee based on the deliverables that I'm required to submit (e.g., DD Outline Specs, 50%/65%/75%/90%/95% CD Final Specs [as many as requested], and Final Specs). Once I submit Final Specs, any changes are additional services, unless the change is a result of an error or omission on my part.
Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP
www.specsandcodes.com |
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1610
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 07:29 pm: | |
I probably spend too much time putting together proposals.
I get information, drawings and outlines specifications from the architect. Sometimes I sit down face to face and go through the drawings asking questions and making notes. I send the architect a listing of all the MasterSpec sections highlighting the sections that will I will prepare. The architect then adds or subtracts from my list. Once the preliminary table of contents is complete I add up the sections and factor in the level of complexity.
I tell the architect after I finalize the preliminary table of contents that any changes will be an additional service.
Yes this is a lot of work, but I want to know the project really well in order to accurately bid the job. I hate it when an architect asks me to bid a job and provides NO information.
Rarely do my proposals get turned down. If they do it is because of external forces like owner financing.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 322
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2017 - 07:54 pm: | |
While I admit that I am not doing the same type of work as you, we both do creative work on complex projects.
If I can't get an hourly rate or retainer in advance, I charge an fee, $500 or $1000, for the initial consultation. The client gets value from your initial discussion.
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 |
Wayne Yancey
Senior Member
Username: wayne_yancey
Post Number: 832
Registered: 01-2008
| | Posted on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 09:59 am: | |
It is the cost of doing business.
We will always be at risk in the same way the unsuccessful bidders are at risk.
At least you have been given the opportunity to establish your own time budget, level of effort, and resultant fee.
I am usually assigned a time budget based on a stupid wild ass guess based on nothing of fact. Level of effort commensurate with project complexity be-damned. |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1100
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 10:44 am: | |
Benefits of working in-house is that I use the "Forgiveness is better than permission" option. I don't ask what my budget is. The PM's often send me a form asking for my hours; I insert what I think is reasonable plus about 20% since I'm always low. They tell me I can't have it. I use whatever hours I need anyway. If the PM tells me I'm out of hours, I stop working on their projects until someone higher up authorizes me to complete the work. If I don't get any useful information I tell the PM that I can't start the project and that I will miss the deadline until I get what I need. If they wait too long, it's not my fault if the deadline is missed. I will do what I can.
I used to be a wise guy and ask what parts of the work they didn't want done when they didn't allocate enough time/budget (schedule is as important as budget). Now I just get as much done as I can based on the information I receive from the team. If no one tells me to stop, I complete the project. Tell me to stop and your project goes to the back of the line when I'm finally authorized to finish it.
It's great. No stress any more. |
Guest (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 12:49 pm: | |
Ken...and you've avoided being labeled as "not a team player" by management? And how are your annual performance (or lack thereof) reviews?
As an in-house, been there, done that...and been labeled that too!
Now as independent, I can only admonish myself!  |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1102
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Friday, September 15, 2017 - 02:37 pm: | |
It's a fun and interesting dynamic.
Most of the people who I get to work with seem to like the fact that I'm there and available to help them. I'm usually pretty responsive and most of my time is spent helping with more than just spec production.
Most of the PM's like that I'm available to blame when their projects go over budget for the specs.
Management rarely wants to get involved since I keep raising other uncomfortable questions every time they come talk to me.
For the most part I'm left to do my work and help the people who want my help. I usually request that I be taken off projects where I don't feel welcome.
Thankfully I still have a pretty full workload. |
Robin E. Snyder
Senior Member
Username: robin
Post Number: 702
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2017 - 10:41 am: | |
David: That is a lot of time/investment in proposals! |
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1612
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 03:02 pm: | |
Robin,
Yes I do spend a lot of time to invest in preparing proposals. I don't want any surprises.
Case in point, a while ago when I talked to an architect about a "small minor" remodel for an elementary school project. By the time we had hashed out the preliminary table of contents I had 54 sections not including Division 00 and 01 sections. The architect just expected a few new windows, paint, and carpet section. But there was a lot of extensive work that needed to be dealt with when replacing windows, redoing siding/exterior envelope, moving walls, seismic improvements, classroom reconfiguration, etc. Though the footprint was small in size the project was not minor.
I did the same procedure for an architect for a "shell and core" project. Again, by the time I counted up all the sections I was about 8 sections shy of an entire building! Even though the project had a small quantity of interior finishes in the elevator lobby and restrooms, I still had to produce those sections. I was not given the job probably because my fee was high. The architect saw the project as just a simple concrete/steel box with windows and a roof.
I go through the table of contents with the architect to make them realize all the materials in the project. There can't be that many materials in just two parallel lines drawn to represent a wall. Right?
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 1105
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Monday, September 18, 2017 - 03:31 pm: | |
Unfortunately that's true for in-house projects too. I try to explain that the specs don't care if there is one or a million of any one item; if it's on the project it requires a spec section. If they want a short-form spec for items they consider minor I will gladly let them direct me to provide them as long as they understand that switching to long-form down the road is going to cost them double.
Perhaps one day they'll understand.
Hope you're keeping busy with the stuff that pays you. |
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