Hyperlinks in specs

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Author Message David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 178 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 07:52 am:    A search for this topic yielded no results. I work for a firm that likes to see hyperlinks in specs, particularly for standards development entities like ASTM and UL. Since we still issue paper documents, I'm having a hard time understanding the value of this. However, at the ripe young age of 60, I am swilling to learn from those who know better. Thoughts, anyone? Thanks in advance. Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 210 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 09:48 am:    What potion are you swilling to learn? I would like to get my hands on some of that. I also turn 60 this year, and if it helps you, I am swilling to try! Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA Jeffrey Wilson CSI CCS SCIP Senior Member Username: wilsonconsulting Post Number: 211 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 09:51 am:    Without benefit of David's swilling potion, I can't imagine an advantage to hyperlinks in a paper document. Perhaps the goal is to set groundwork for the future paperless work flow for specifications and construction project delivery. Jeffrey Wilson CCS CSI SCIP Wilson Consulting Inc Ardmore PA David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 179 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 09:55 am:    Jeff, Ha! Thanks for spotting the Freudian slop in my message. It took me a couple readings to get your meaning. Fire - Ready - Aim! Liz O'Sullivan Senior Member Username: liz_osullivan Post Number: 225 Registered: 10-2011 Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 09:57 am:    I think there's a disadvantage to having hyperlinks in a document that is to be printed on actual paper - the text can become hard to read if it's underlined. I try to remove hyperlinks unless I know it's going to bidders as a PDF. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1713 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, May 04, 2017 - 12:22 pm:    Most specs are probably distributed via PDF these days, so the hyperlinks could allow a construction team member to go directly to additional information. However, in the case of standards that are not available for free, such a link could only go to the summary or to the overall standard body's website Greta Eckhardt Senior Member Username: gretaeckhardt Post Number: 57 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 09:32 am:    I think hyperlinks in electronic documents can be helpful, but I have a couple of comments: One thing I don't like about them is that we reserve blue underlined formatting for added text when we track changes, but that could be worked around. MasterSpec colors their hyperlinks to manufacturers in orange which helps. Links to ASTM standards won't work smoothly since one must have a subscription or pay in order to view them on-line - this is also true of some but not all other standards. Guest (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 10:27 am:    When you include hyperlinks in your specifications, do you include language in Div 01 clarifying that any links and linked material is for information only and that it is not part of the contract documents? Or, are the hyperlinks meant to link information that becomes part of the contract? Gail Ann J. Goldstead, AIA, CSI, CDT, LEED AP, BD+C Senior Member Username: ggoldstead Post Number: 8 Registered: 03-2015 Posted on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 10:38 am:    Hyperlinks are theoretically helpful when you are looking at a PDF of the specification on your computer. It's wonderful to hit a link and the exact PD sheet you need pops up. Unfortunately, these links aren't always durable and reliable. Basic hyperlinks to a manufacturer's website is often frustrating because each manufacturer organizes their website differently and frequently it's very time-consuming to find the specific data you are looking for. It's better to actually put the PD sheet into the specification, if necessary, and hopefully the product is still available when the contractor needs it. Gail Goldstead Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 586 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 02:34 pm:    Durable and Reliable: Our office primarily does major healthcare projects. I first compiled the specifications for a large project that is just now nearing completion in 2008. So often for us, the company we specified a product from no longer exists, let alone their web based information. That is the main reason we limit hyperlinks to truly obscure, often "no known equals" products. Also, because of our heathcare specialization, we are often a part of a large integrated project delivery team with a shared cloud based document repository. That is a good place for product data sheets. We also need to be careful that we don't get bitten when trying to feed helpful information. You need to make clear that you are providing the product data sheets as a convenience, so you don't get thanked for your efforts with RFI's requesting the same for products you didn't include. Brett Scarfino (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Friday, May 05, 2017 - 03:10 pm:    two categories: 1) groups/organizations/institutes. 2) manufacturers and products. The prior rarely changes names or website format, but they generally charge for their content. The later commonly changes names/products/revamps website for marketing purposes, though their content is generally free and readily available. Here is an example I just came by this week: http://www.vitroglazings.com/en-US/Glass.aspx *personal bookmark updated. So, I would see limited value in providing anything beyond the domain name (noting that could even change, example above). I also avoid clicking hyperlinks (or attempting to type them in) in favor of googling what I need / finding the latest "published" information. You never know how the IT or Web-admin is handling archived information; your direct link to something could be retrievable, but outdated. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Saturday, May 06, 2017 - 10:24 pm:    If you do link to astm or other standards, make sure you link to the edition of the standard that applies to the contract. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 181 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Monday, May 08, 2017 - 10:23 am:    Thank you for all of the useful feedback. Steve Bruneel's comment that we sometimes suffer when we try to be too helpful is well-taken. At this point my position is that hyperlinks look impressive but they can fail about as often as they succeed. I want to be helpful to the end-users of the documents, but I am not going to chew their food for them. J. Peter Jordan Senior Member Username: jpjordan Post Number: 959 Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Monday, May 08, 2017 - 10:52 am:    David-- The last line in your last post should be today's aphorism. J. Peter Jordan, FCSI, AIA, CCS, LEED AP, SCIP RH (Hank) Sweers II RA CSI CCS Senior Member Username: rhsweers2 Post Number: 19 Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2017 - 03:25 pm:    I have prefered manufacturer's reps prepare hardware sets, and they typically include hyperlinks in the Word file. As long as I don't eliminate them by copy/paste with "unformated" text (which is actually my preference), the Project Manangers/Architects are still able to use them - even in a printed PDF file within their tablets when on a project site (no need to print!). I didn't realize that until they asked why the links were no longer "active" on one spec. You DO have to manage the PDF export to make that happen though. Phil Kabza Senior Member Username: phil_kabza Post Number: 583 Registered: 12-2002 Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 01:27 pm:    The eventual failure of hyperlinks embedded in specs as manufacturers change products and URLs reinforce the fact that specifications age, and should not be dragged from project to project over the years. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 688 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Wednesday, May 17, 2017 - 01:36 pm:    Can we call the first project manual in which hyperlinks and URL's were embedded, the UR-specification?