| Author |
Message |
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1526
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 04:06 pm: |    |
I know that warranties has been discussed on this forum ad nauseaum, but I am seriously considering removing all warranty language from my specifications (except roofing and waterproofing).
I was recently questioned about inconsistent warranty periods in my specifications. The architect said Manufacturer A only offers X years while Manufacturer B offers XX years. I was about to tell him warranties do not really matter but then realized if warranties do not matter then why do I include warranties in my specifications?
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC |
George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: geverding
Post Number: 835
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:08 pm: | |
From a specifier's standpoint, I agree in principle about removing most warranties from master specifications. However, it should be the owner who decides what warranties are removed, and which are retained, since warranties benefit the owner, to whatever little or great perceived extent there is benefit in a warranty. |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 228
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:30 pm: | |
I have written this for a magazine article and will appreciate your perspective. It concerns mold growth and mineral fiber ceiling panels for hospitals and other spaces requiring cleanable surfaces:
"Treated panels are offered with multi-year limited warranties. Yet, warranties are commercial agreements and not statements of performance, and their limitations must be carefully considered. For example, the warranty from one manufacturer excludes damage caused roof leaks, sweating pipes or equipment, condensation on windows and other surface, humidified air from an HVAC system. Since these are the leading sources of moisture that contributes to mold growth, the value of the warranty is unclear."
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 |
Dave Metzger
Senior Member
Username: davemetzger
Post Number: 664
Registered: 07-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 05:48 pm: | |
Thereby demonstrating that warranties benefit the manufacturer more than they do the owner. (Sorry, I'm wearing my skepticism hat today). |
George A. Everding, FCSI, CCS, CCCA, AIA
Senior Member
Username: geverding
Post Number: 836
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 06:06 pm: | |
Michael and Dave, yes. To amend my last line, of the three parties (a/e, owner, contractor), warranties benefit the owner. But for sure, it is the manufacturer who benefits most. To the winner go the spoils, and to the drafter of the document goes the benefit. Who writes the warranty? |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 229
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 06:18 pm: | |
George -- we can potentially ALL win if the warranty reduces uncertainty. What manufacturer can tolerate incidental and consequential liability a product failure (of a ceiling, for example) shutting down an entire place of business. By limiting their risk to the cost of goods sold, or whatever, the manufacturer has a cap on liability.
My concerns are:
1 For the integrity of the design professional who selects a product on the basis of an impressive looking warranty -- but does not take time to read and understand the warranty or to fully research product performance.
2 For the integrity of a manufacturer that writes a warranty that is intended to mislead.
And, as usual here, I am preaching to the choir. But if you were not here to hear, I would be preaching to myself and then I would know I was nuts.
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 |
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP
Senior Member
Username: david_axt
Post Number: 1527
Registered: 03-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 10, 2016 - 07:08 pm: | |
George,
I write specification for a lot of public school projects. School districts are relatively naive when it comes to warranties. I believe they are lulled into a false sense of security. As was mentioned in a previous thread, no warranty ever stopped a leak.
School districts tend to think more is better. I once wrote a project manual where the correction period was changed from 1 year to 2 years and all the industry standard warranties were doubled! I got tired of fighting it and just made those changes. I seriously doubt the owner will be able to collect on a nonstandard warranty just because I changed the warranty period in my specs.
This leads me to my next point. I will require the contractor to submit a warranty in submittals, but leave out language of what the warranty must include (blistering, delamination, cracking, etc.) and time period.
David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP
Specifications Consultant
Axt Consulting LLC |
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