Zika Virus Precautions on Constructio...

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Author Message Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1670 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 01:15 pm:    Here in S. FL the Zika virus risk has increased, construction sites are being warned of this risk. I would think protecting workers from mosquito bites and sexually transmitted disease is the GC's responsibility, but should this threat be acknowledged in the specifications in Div 1? There is an article in today's So FL Business Journal: "Zika risk threaten Miami Construction Sites" here is the link, however it is a subscription service, I doubt anyone will be able to access it. http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2016/08/08/zika-risks-threaten-miami-construction-sites.html?ana=e_sflo_bn_exclusive&u=miqD95%2BreoSki6FxLd7eeO%2BPUvW&t=1470675845&j=75364502 For those who are seriously interested in this article, please contact me. David J. Wyatt, CDT Senior Member Username: david_j_wyatt_cdt Post Number: 150 Registered: 03-2011 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 01:41 pm:    Jerome, As if you did not have enough challenges! If the risk or danger were unique to the site or unique to construction, then I would think the owner and the contractor would have to decide who would own that risk and make the decision a condition of the contract. But since the risk is a condition of the entire region around the clock, then how could anyone control it? I think you should deflect all suggestions that it be put in Division 01. Good luck! Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 73 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 01:47 pm:    I would think protecting workers from ... sexually transmitted disease is the GC's responsibility. This made me look twice ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1004 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 01:51 pm:    Give it Civil to deal with in their dewatering spec. Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 296 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 02:15 pm:    Dewayne, was that fun to write? What is we substitute 'cholera' or 'rodents of unusual size (ROUS)' for the zika virus? We put pest control in Division 01, presumably because we care about how the contractor does this. If you and the Owner are okay with the contractor spraying DDT (or today's legal South Florida equivalent) over the job site, then leave it to means and methods. I'd recommend a Division 01 section, something like Construction Waste Management or Construction Indoor Air Quality Management. Require the GC/CM to hire a professional to submit a mosquito management plan in accordance with US CDC and local health department recommendations, for review by the Owner's legal counsel. Require them to post this plan in the construction trailer, visible to employees, like any other safety notice. - Richard A. Rosen, CSI, CCS, AIA Senior Member Username: rarosen Post Number: 122 Registered: 08-2006 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 02:27 pm:    Here on the Northeast Jersey coast and in Central PA farm country we may not have the mosquitoes but we do have horse flies (a health problem) and green flies (they bite). If you in SFL deal with mosquitoes should we up here deal with flies? Where does it end? How do we require contractors protect workers from Mother Nature? Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 188 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 02:31 pm:    The issue is not to protect construction workers, that is means and methods. The issue is the property owner's responsibility to the community. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 297 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 02:40 pm:    Michael, yes, thank you. ken hercenberg Senior Member Username: khercenberg Post Number: 1005 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 02:53 pm:    Telling the GC what and how to spray is dangerous. What if the spray that was ok last week gets put on the NIOSH list next week? What if the spray you specify doesn't work? Are you responsible when people get Zika? SFL authorities are spraying like crazy already. From everything I've heard to date, they're asking people to eliminate ponding water where the little bloodsuckers reproduce (the mosquitos, not the Contractors). As to STDs, it would seem that protective gear is means and methods. Steven Bruneel, AIA, CSI-CDT, LEED-AP, EDAC Senior Member Username: redseca2 Post Number: 553 Registered: 12-2006 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 03:04 pm:    I would leave the means and methods out of it. Create a spec section that requires the Contractor to submit a plan, for the Owner's approval, to mitigate standing water on the construction site. We are often required by the AHJ or the Owner to provide a Section that requires the Contractor to submit similar plans such as a "Stormwater Pollution Prevention Plan". John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1686 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 03:07 pm:    Lisa, my understanding of pest control has always been to prevent infestations of the newly constructed building, not any other kind of concern. An exception would be cases where construction had the risk of increasing infestations in neighboring areas, something often needed in urban environments. As to Zika in particular, I agree that a common, regional health risk seems like something that the owner and contractor would want to specifically address. (I don't even know where sexually transmitted diseases fits in here at all.) Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 74 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 04:01 pm:    Lisa, I didn't write that, I copied it from the original post. It seemed strange to me that STD's were part of the post. I didn't see how protecting workers from STD's had anything to do trying to mitigate mosquito bites. Why do you care?? Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1671 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 04:07 pm:    John, sexually transmitted disease was mentioned in the article; Zika causes severe birth defects. the article mentioned Pregnant women being warned to not go to construction sites, not sure how to enforce it? For the past 15 years I've included a Hurricane/Windstorm Preparation Plan Submittal requirement under Submittal Procedures, as an Informational Submittal. Both architects and contractors have accepted this requirement, even though SFL has been void of major hurricanes for the past 10 years. I am discussing the Zika risk with my clients, eventually I may include a similar requirement as an informational submittal, I guess it will depend on how serious the risk becomes. Zika may be eradicated, hurricanes doubtful. S FLoridians are taking this risk seriously, sweeping ponding water from flat roofs, overturning containers, policing for mosquito infestations, its pretty commonplace due to previous West Nile Disease transmission, jury is still out, something to consider. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1672 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 04:20 pm:    Lisa, Dwayne, I am unable to post the actual news article, the site is preventing me from copying even parts of the article, so that you can read it for yourself. The article mentioned a firm that was warning its female employees to avoid construction sites in Zika prone areas, esp if they are pregnant. After several attempts I was able to copy the following from the article: "...Group warns pregnant women not to go to its job sites in areas with Zika. It also informs its employees that Zika is a sexually transmitted disease." Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 189 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 04:24 pm:    Misquito-borne disease vectors are now suspected in Southern Californian cases of Zika as well. Here is what CDC says about Zika and sexual transmission. http://www.cdc.gov/zika/transmission/sexual-transmission.html Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1673 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 04:27 pm:    Ken, I never post actual approved pesticides in my specs for Florida termite treatment I post a link to the Florida Dept of Agriculture which provides a list of approved termite treatment: http://www.freshfromflorida.com/content/download/3134/19725/TermiticidesRegisteredInFlorida.pdf Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1674 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 04:30 pm:    Thanks for the link Michael, very useful. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1675 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 05:12 pm:    Lisa, I too am perplexed re: your response to Dwayne. I think you owe Dwayne an apology and suggest you read the actual article. Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 75 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 05:39 pm:    Jerome, Thanks, but not looking for an apology. One of my personal credos is to never expect or ask for an apology. Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap Senior Member Username: lgoodrob Post Number: 298 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 05:50 pm:    Sorry, I forget that tone does not transfer well in this form of communication. Dewayne and I have not yet met, but I think he knew I was just teasing. I'll add emoticons next time. I do think this is a serious public health issue, affecting both men and women. From what I have read, medical professionals believe it can be transmitted in both directions. - Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 76 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 06:14 pm:    Lisa, I apologize. I did not realize that you were teasing. So hard to tell having not met a person. I am too used to discussion boards where posters are more snarky than jovial. I will be less snarky and more jovial in the future Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1676 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Monday, August 08, 2016 - 07:30 pm:    Dwayne, isn't that a Gibbs (NCIS) rule, "never apologize, its a sign of weakness"... what can I say, I'm a Leroy Gibbs fan. Justatim Senior Member Username: justatim Post Number: 91 Registered: 04-2010 Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 07:39 am:    Good luck controlling water puddles at a construction site! And what does one do with the damp-curing of concrete? Since construction requires water, I would think that the contractor should provide a plan reviewed by the building/pest-control jurisdictional officials, not the architect. As I understand mosquito control, first a knock-out spray would be used for adult mosquitoes, followed by periodic applications of BT (particularly Bacillus thuringiensis israelensis) on locations of standing water to kill mosquito larvae. This BT is recognized as harmless to mammals, fish, and other insects. Note that running/rippling water prevents mosquitoes from laying eggs. I doubt that BT would harm concrete curing, but perhaps this needs testing. Greta Eckhardt Senior Member Username: gretaeckhardt Post Number: 42 Registered: 08-2013 Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 11:27 am:    I agree with the statements that leave the means and methods in the hands of the CM or GC. Our expertise as Architects and Specifiers does not give us the background to either maximize effectiveness or minimize toxicity of pest control. At the most, I would include a brief paragraph in Division 01 specifications for temporary controls, stating that the CM/GC is responsible for pest control in accordance with local laws & regulations and the requirements of the Owner. Preparation of a plan is essential, but I am not sure the Architect even wants to see an informational submittal - the plan should be reviewed directly by the Owner or appropriate authorities, as suggested above. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1498 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 02:48 pm:    Greta, I agree with you. Architects and specifiers have no business dictating the Contractor's means, methods, safety, and security. I also agree about a blanket statement in Division 01 that the Contractor needs to apply to all local, state and federal laws, etc. The only reason to require an informational submittal would be to ensure the Contractor has put together a plan. If we don't require it, they probably won't do it. Of course we should not "approve" the plan only log it as submitted. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 650 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 05:15 pm:    General conditions require that the Contractor comply with laws; eg AIA A201, 3.7.2, "The Contractor shall comply with and give notices required by applicable laws, statutes, ordinances, codes, rules and regulations, and lawful orders of public authorities applicable to performance of the Work." There is no need to repeat this in Division 01. Sheldon Wolfe Senior Member Username: sheldon_wolfe Post Number: 921 Registered: 01-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 05:42 pm:    Right on, Dave! Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1677 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 05:58 pm:    Correct David Axt, Informational Submittals are logged in and passed on to other professionals for review and approval. MSDS are treated the same way in my specs. Lynn Javoroski FCSI CCS LEEDŽ AP SCIP Affiliate Senior Member Username: lynn_javoroski Post Number: 2084 Registered: 07-2002 Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 06:33 pm:    Provided you're working with AIA A201 (or other documents with a similar statement). It might be useful to review the General Conditions. An (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2016 - 07:35 pm:    So if the General Conditions doesn't state that contractor needs to obey the law, does that give them carte blanche to break the law? Is it only the law when we call attention to it? I thought the law was the law. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1687 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 11:34 am:    Putting compliance with the law in the general conditions makes it part of the contract. Then, if there is a problem with the contractor breaking the law, it becomes a breach of the contract and the owner can use civil means as outlined in the contract to deal with it. Otherwise, if the contractor broke the law the owner would have no recourse other than criminal prosecution or regulatory adjudication. Depending on the circumstance, the owner may have limited effectiveness in seeing that such procedures happen. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1500 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 12:02 pm:    John, Isn't the entire project manual (and all the drawings) the contract? David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1678 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 12:07 pm:    Where is there a law that requires a contractor to protect its workers from disease from the elements or in this case mosquitos carrying viruses. CDC has issued warnings only. I feel having a plan of action in place for a known hazardous condition is prudent. However I have reached out to my clients for their input. I hate to tell you how many immigration laws are broken on a daily basis in S FL construction, shortage of labor has affected many job sites, regulation is lax when deadlines are trying to be met. I expect there are laws that require general protection. My intent is to identify issues that might affect construction and make sure the team members are aware of them, to the best of my ability. In my case requiring a submittal from the GC for a plan of action has worked for hurricane threat, why not for mosqitoes? Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1679 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 12:13 pm:    From the CDC: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a warning for pregnant women to avoid the Zika-designated zone in Miami. If a woman contracts Zika during her pregnancy, the virus can cause her baby to be born with microcephaly and deformities, such as a small head. BTW, they are at least 10 years away from a vaccine, Zika is going to be a threat for a long time. So many questions, what if a woman construction worker doesn't know she is pregnant and gets bite on the job, a lawsuit and workmen's comp, but if a plan of action is in place, everyone benefits. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1680 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 12:17 pm:    I'd like to post more of what is going on in Miami because of Zika, lots of headlines pertaining to construction, but my A/C stopped cooling yesterday afternoon, to be fixed this afternoon, meanwhile it is 91 outside and 93 inside (includes body hot air), so I am headed back to my car to join my daughter in cool bliss. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1681 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 12:26 pm:    David, I'd like to hear John's opinion on your query: "Isn't the entire project manual (and all the drawings) the contract?" In my experience if the Contract for Construction specifically names the project manual and the drawings as part of the contract, than they are, but I have worked on jobs where the final contract deleted the specs, so even though the specs were issued as a contract document, the GC did not have to comply with them. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1502 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 02:44 pm:    Jerome, You are a good man for being concerned about construction worker health/safety. Ultimately the responsibility of construction worker health/safety falls on the General Contractor and subcontractors since the workers are their employees (or contract employees). The most that you can do is insist they follow federal, state, city and local laws. Of course as a human being you have the responsibility to point something out if you think it looks dangerous. I was at a jobsite where the worker was in a trench deeper than four feet and there was no excavation protection. I immediately reported it to the superintendent verbally. I told him something like, "You should check out the guy digging over there. I am not an expert but that does not look safe." In your case all you or the architect can (or should) is mention your concern and ask the Contractor if they have a plan to deal with the dangers of mosquitoes and mosquito-borne illnesses. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC David G. Axt, CCS, CSI ,SCIP Senior Member Username: david_axt Post Number: 1503 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 02:54 pm:    Let me amend what I just posted. The Contractor "owns" the jobsite. The Contractor has a responsibility to protect everybody that steps on (or near) the jobsites. This includes employees, subcontractors, owner, design team, and visitors. This also includes a duty to protect people on the sidewalk or nearby. David G. Axt, CCS, CSI, SCIP Specifications Consultant Axt Consulting LLC Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1682 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 03:45 pm:    Thanks for the complement David, but I seldom speak to the Contractor, seldom visit the job site unless I am paid to do it, so I seldom get the opportunity to mention my concerns, the specs talk for me. I've also found that most architects don't read the specs, until there is a problem. I have to guesstimate what problems may occur on the jobsite and include solutions in the specs, and I've been doing this for years. Seems to work, as I've said before many have tried to find fault with the specs I produce, but none have...knock on wood, so my specs are much different from the specs most spec writers prepare, not foolproof, but better for private sector construction in South Florida. Fortunately I keep busy, even with the current threat of specless construction. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1683 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, August 10, 2016 - 03:49 pm:    David, my experience w/So Florida Construction has been that asking for more than is documented is a pipe dream, no Contractor will provide more than what he is contracted to provide. Occasionally a new contractor shows up in SFL, and they want to do the right thing, that notion does not last. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1688 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 11:26 am:    If the final contract (that is, the one signed by the owner and contractor) does not include the specs, then unfortunately they are not contract documents. My comment was more specific about why to include a contract clause (not a specification requirement, which I think would be the wrong place for this) to require the contractor to follow the law. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1684 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 12:45 pm:    And yet 80% of new private funded construction in So Florida are being built with 'specless' contract documents. I have not been able to convince architects or developers of your belief, to them if the contract calls for only drawings, than those are the contract docs. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 193 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 01:38 pm:    I suspect that the situation Jerome describes about "specless" construction is the norm for most private funded construction throughout the country. Certainly the work is being built without the type of complete project manual that the members of this forum are capable of producing. Expecting otherwise is pointless. I could have an attorney look over every contract before I buy something, but I don't. I could see a physician every time I have an ache, but am usually content to browse the shelf at a pharmacy and select my own remedy. Someone needing a building could hire an architect and obtain fully detailed drawings and specifications. But for most construction, it is enough to have a simple agreement identifying the basis of payment, scope of work, and that the construction has to meet applicable building codes. Buildings up and down Main Street USA are built this way all the time. On the first day of Architecture School at University of Illinois, Prof. Walt Lewis would give a pop quiz. As a student, I thought, "Great, we haven't been taught anything yet, and already we are being tested." I remember two questions on the quiz: A. What is the most important building material? B. Why should architect be used to design a building? Most students answered A by stating things like concrete, steel, wood, etc. And we answered B by saying things like, it is required by code, it gets the best value for the client, etc. The answers that Prof. Lewis said were the reality is: A. Money. B. If the owner has unusual needs or unique desires AND can afford architectural services. I learned a valuable lesson that day. Now, lets focus on serving those that want our services and can afford them. Beyond that, many of us strive to raise the standards of care in our industry and community, but that is driven by our own needs and, usually, not the client's. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru 818-219-4937 Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEEDŽ AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 272 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 01:42 pm:    With the exemption of interior fit-out projects, all the private work I have been involved with in the last 40 plus years have had specifications. Than includes work primarily in Pennsylvania, Maryland, DC & Virginia. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1689 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 02:30 pm:    All of the private work done at all of the firms I worked for in the last 30 years in New England area included specs. One variation was small fitup jobs (maybe up to $200,000 or so), where there were often abbreviated specs on drawings; though some did not have this. Not sure that this is so common outside of south florida. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1685 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 03:02 pm:    John, So Florida construction is unlike any other part of the country; its difficult to explain, but the mentality is different here. Unfortunately I can't spend much time posting right now, but I will give an example, ten years ago I had several highrise projects under construction in Jacksonville, FL. I was working with the late Jim Gulde, a masonry and stucco consultant, Jim advised he was offering a seminar on stucco in Jacksonville, I was unable to attend, but I persuaded the architect's PM to attend the seminar with some of their team members, I had given the architect a list of questions regarding stucco issues that come up on So Florida projects. Most of the attendees were No Florida based stucco subcontractors. I learned later that when the architect had asked about So Florida problems (these were mostly complaints against my stucco specs from So Florida subs) none of the North Florida subs agreed with their peers, fortunately JIm had a copy of my stucco spec which he passed out, no one objected to the spec section, everyone attending thought it was well written and would not challenge it, yet on almost every So Florida project, my stucco section gets the most challenges. Its interesting to note that when my stucco spec is following, there has been no stucco delamination, a common So Florid stucco failure. I developed the stucco spec by working with the late Harry Rourke and as I said Jim Gulde, I admit its a difficult spec because its an expensive spec, its been challenged by many contractors and lawyers, but I have not waivered from it. Because I know what happens when stucco fails in So Florida, Mold and Mildew follow, every time. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1686 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 03:18 pm:    Btw, I am not a stucco Maven, I sought out stucco mavens who unfortunately have now passed away, these were my mentors and I am proud to say they were two of many mentors I've been fortunate to work with over the past 30 years. My current stucco spec has changed, its gotten more contractor friendly, I've had to give in, compromise is necessary esp in So Florida construction. Fortunately we now have a Florida Lath and Plaster Bureau that is working on updating stucco standards in Florida, ASTM C 926 hardly applies to Florida construction. Russ Flynn in the current head maven at FLAPB, for those interested, joining the FLAPB is a worthwile endeavor, I only wish I had more time to attend the meetings. http://www.flapb.com/ For those who do not know the word maven, its a Yiddish word for expert, in So Florida, most know what a maven is, as well as the word 'Gonif' which means a dishonest person or a thief ,there are a lot of gonifs in So Florida, esp on construction sites, its a term you must know if you do work in So Fl. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1687 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, August 11, 2016 - 03:27 pm:    oops, I said in the previous post that I had not waivered from the original stucco spec, for many years I did not, but I was pressured to compromise, primarily because of the threat of no specs on the job, it seems making my specs more contractor friendly has helped.