Boring locations - Geotechnical inves...

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Author Message Ross Lillie, AIA, LEED AP BD+C New member Username: manincellv Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2015 Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 11:02 am:    Should the Architect be the one locating borings on a lot, lets say for a custom home? I think the geotechnical engineer or at least the structural engineer should be the one. Thoughts? R. Lillie, AIA, LEED AP BD+C Ellis C. Whitby, PE, CSI, AIA, LEEDŽ AP Senior Member Username: ecwhitby Post Number: 269 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 11:51 am:    Definitely not the Architect. The Geotech, Structural, or Civil (if there is one). Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 786 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 12:12 pm:    The Geotechnical engineer should determine the number and location of the borings. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1395 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 12:30 pm:    I don't know, as an architect, I always seem to determine the boring locations--wherever I go, nothing exciting happens there. Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 639 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 02:16 pm:    Except of course, Ron, for your upcoming presidency of CSI. Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 37 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 03:58 pm:    I was a drilling contractor for a while and I used to say that my business was going down the hole Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1396 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 04:40 pm:    Well, Dewayne, at least a "bit" of it was... Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 38 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 05:05 pm:    Yes and some times we hit "rock bottom" Any way to upload a photo with a post? Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1397 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Thursday, May 05, 2016 - 05:34 pm:    Follow the directions here: http://discus.4specs.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi?pg=formatting#images Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 145 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Friday, May 06, 2016 - 06:24 pm:    Does the stage of a project make a difference to who locates soil testing sites. (Not always bores). If it is a raw site and structures have not been sited, then a geotech should locate test sites best suited to examine the entire site. If the building is already located, one can say the architect has already determined where test sites should be... under the building footprint. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 787 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2016 - 08:29 am:    In all cases the geotechnical engineer should determine the number and locations of borings. The geotechnical engineer should be provided with any information related to the nature and location of the building. While you would generally want a boring under the building the geotechnical engineer is also interested in nearby geologic features. from my perspective you are practicing geotechnical engineering if you specify the number and or locations of the borings. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1642 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2016 - 08:55 am:    Mark, I agree, with the exception of existing improvements. Eons ago I worked as a PA on an auto dealership expansion in So FL. Over 20 borings were taken, all of them missed what was hidden below the existing buildings. Research should have been performed of the past use of the site, as the current Owner was not forthcoming to advise the team that the site had been home to a truck stop in the 50's. When demolition started, underground oil pits, propane tanks, gas tanks, etc were found, EPA was called in, demolition was delayed 6 months, and the cost to remove all existing contaminated soil and bring in new fill was added to the GC's nut. The Owner blamed the architect for not performing his DD, lawsuits back and forth, finally one of the managers on the Owner's side admitted the deception. Moral of the story, do your research and find an old timer who can point out that vent pipes protruding from the ground might means something below ground needs venting. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1643 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Saturday, May 07, 2016 - 08:56 am:    Also, some owners lie more than contractors. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1672 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 03:28 pm:    In this instance, it seems more an example of why the owner should turn over as much information as they have about existing site conditions. That is not the same as determining where boring or test pits should be performed. Plus, the owner was on the hook in the end anyway for the delays and sub-surface conditions. Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 43 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 04:02 pm:    "Follow the directions here: http://discus.4specs.com/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi?pg=formatting#images" I tried to post a photo, following the above, and this error message appeared "The formatting code image does not exist or cannot be used in this context. " Has any else had success posting a photo? Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 427 Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 04:10 pm:    Dewayne - I checked and the images option was not enabled. Just did so - 100,000 byte limit so watch the file size. Colin Colin Gilboy Publisher, 4specs.com 435.200.5775 - Utah 800.369.8008 Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 44 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 04:24 pm:    Thanks Colin Dewayne Dean Senior Member Username: ddean Post Number: 45 Registered: 02-2016 Posted on Monday, May 09, 2016 - 04:30 pm:    This is a little late coming, but this is a pic of looking down a 300' bore hole. We found a mysterious source of light!! Scott Piper Senior Member Username: spiper Post Number: 32 Registered: 08-2014 Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2016 - 05:53 pm:    Our office typically locates the borings due to the stage of the project when the borings are ordered. This is typically during SD or even sooner so there is no engineer on board yet. We do not feel this is practicing geotechnical engineering because once the engineer is on board they are presented the information and they make the final determination if additional borings or borings in different locations are warranted or required. I take my own blood pressure periodically (at the request of my doctor) and I provide this information to my doctor. He then uses this information along with his own readings to determine if any changes, tests, etc. are required. I have never believed that I was guilty of practicing medicine. Mark Gilligan SE, Senior Member Username: mark_gilligan Post Number: 789 Registered: 10-2007 Posted on Tuesday, May 17, 2016 - 11:16 pm:    You are allowed to practice medicine on your own body. It is a false economy to defer bringing the structural engineer on board. If a structural engineer is working on the project when the geotechnical engineer is retained he can make initial estimates of footing loads. This information might impact the recommended foundation system and hence the number and depth of the borings. Even if the structural engineer has not been engaged the geotechnical engineer is much more qualified than the architect to determine the location and number of borings based on the proposed size and location of the building. I know it is impolite to suggest that the architect does not know everything but the truth is the truth. In my experience it is not as simple as suggested to get additional borings. John Bunzick, CCS, CCCA, LEED AP Senior Member Username: bunzick Post Number: 1674 Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2016 - 01:48 pm:    Mark, you always seem to cut right to the meat of the matter and explain the obvious. Some discussions on this board illustrate the often surprising lack of communication between consultants and experts. I'm not sure why this is, perhaps the consultants themselves are reluctant, or the architect is not doing a thorough job orchestrating the project. Or, maybe the owner is being a cheapskate and not retaining needed expertise. My experience suggests that when everyone gets together (IRL or virtually), appropriate approaches are usually readily at hand. (BTW, IRL = in real life.) (BTW = by the way.)