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RH (Hank) Sweers II RA CSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: rhsweers2
Post Number: 13
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 04:57 pm: |    |
I assume this may have already been addressed, so please forward to appropriate archive thread if so.
Now working "inside" a firm I wrote specs for as a consultant for several years, I'm also taking on drawing review that I never did before. To my surprise, drawing notes say things like: "WOOD LOCKERS (105100)". While I'm glad the staff is aware there ARE specs out there (I didn't at that age), it greatly concerns me to have Section numbers in almost every note.
First of all, the lockers were actually metal. Nothing was said about mounting them over a concrete base that somehow was never shown - though that might really imply an additional note being necessary directed to concrete - a detail showing that mounting would have been good also. But what if a note doesn't refer to a spec section - is it no good? If it says something is "PAINTED GYPSUM BOARD" should that note also reference both spec sections in Division 9 to be complete and correct? I see a multitude of RFI's on the way: "you referenced "BIKE RACKS (129300)", but you only have a Spec Section 129313 - please advise and clarify."
I used to craft keynotes to coordinate with "terms" used in the specs, and to add extent, location and in some critical cases, how it was to be installed, like: wood blocking - anchor w/ 3" screws in double rows staggered 6" OC each row" or something (I know that is supposed to be covered in the spec though).
I now know that this notation system is generated out of the box directly from Revit.
I also know that there have been notation systems over the years that only include the spec section and no terminology at all - which doesn't work well in my opinion if you are the craftsman in the field - who seldom sees the spec book in the Super's office. With Revit, I DO appreciate that the staff wants to tightly coordinate with the spec since their notes are coordinated inside that Program - and it lets me know if they added something that I might not have covered.
But, I would prefer that "notes" just say something like: "LOCKERS" or "LOCKERS ON 4" HIGH CONCRETE BASE RECESSED 3" FROM FRONT", and let me control the material with the type or brand selected in the Spec, and permit me to move the section possibly from a narrow scope to a broadscope without affecting the drawings.
I presume I'm all wet though. Time to get with the program, right? |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 956
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 07:22 pm: | |
Lots of people aren't comfortable with using keynotes so don't be too hard on yourself. Personally I'm happy to see that someone is making an effort to use them. It's going to be up to you to set them down the right path. You might learn to love them too!
So Revit does have keynotes 'out of the box' as you noted. They have a master keynote list that can be automatically refreshed onto everyone's computer if you have a good IT group. You want to control the content of that TXT file so that you can make sure that the right keynotes go the right key word. The trick is to then get the team to ask you which keynote to use so you don't have to catch them messing up.
One good tool is to have a team member print you out a complete list of the keynotes for the project periodically (weekly perhaps?). It makes for a great basis for your Table of Contents and is a great quality review tool. I find it helps greatly in communicating with the various project teams. If you're lucky the team members will come to rely on you and you'll learn more about your projects than you ever thought possible. I know that's how it worked for me. |
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: michael_chusid
Post Number: 83
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 07:23 pm: | |
If you had standing in the office, you would be discussing this with your boss, not with us. Since drawings and specs must be coordinated, write your specs to fit the drawings. For example,
If the office standard note is "WOOD LOCKERS (105100)" even if the lockers are wood, then write a spec section "WOOD LOCKERS (105100)" and under SUMMARY, say "'Wood Lockers' shown on Drawings shall be metal lockers."
Eventually, the contractors will complain enough and the boss will come to you to ask how to fix the problem. Or to fire you.
Either that, or enroll the entire office in a CDT class.
Good luck.
Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS
www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru |
ken hercenberg
Senior Member
Username: khercenberg
Post Number: 957
Registered: 12-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 07:32 pm: | |
Michael, please don't go scaring Hank away. He is trying to make the best of this situation.
Still, it is all about education and communication. Being a positive force in your office will possibly win you over more allies than letting them fall on their collective faces.
To be fair, I did work with one architect 30 years ago where I had to write "In lieu of what is shown on the Drawings, provide the following..." but that was because he just wouldn't budge. I showed it to the boss before it went out and he still sealed the documents. Gotta love our profession! |
anon (Unregistered Guest)
Unregistered guest
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 07:47 pm: | |
Hank,
You are 100% spot on...
Our spec writers produce and export "keynotes" directly from the project specifications for reviteers to use as they note things on the drawings. With the software we use, we can toggle the specification section number on or off, at the preference of the BIM jockeys. We generally recommend against including the spec section info, but if the team wants that, it's no big deal since these are tied to the specs that have been prepared for the project(s).
The keynotes are limited to very basic terms - Gypsum Board, Weather Barrier, Roofing Membrane, stuff like that. Not things like "align with face of stud" etc. Those are notes, not "keynotes," as we have defined these terms for our internal use.
I encourage and applaud your continued efforts to get the keynotes matched to the drawing content! Whether you use the spec section # in the keynote or not... Wood Lockers are not the same as Metal Lockers, and a keynote should be provided/available for each... and used correctly... |
RH (Hank) Sweers II RA CSI CCS
Senior Member
Username: rhsweers2
Post Number: 14
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 09:57 pm: | |
I've got top management support and concurrence already, but was looking for backup that wasn't in any other documents or standards that we could use to strengthen our discusisons (we could just say to do it!). The stuff I learned from didn't involve Revit or even AutoCad - we were stepping up to using pin-bar drafting - the PC wasn't born yet.
It's the younger staff that is most resistant - with experience from other offices: its how THEY do it! But I'm there to train and teach them also - which is more challenging . . .
I was about to start editing that master keynote TXT file when this all came up. But nobody mentioned a way to switch the section numbers off! I'll be tracking that down next. |
Lisa Goodwin Robbins, RA, CCS, LEED ap
Senior Member
Username: lgoodrob
Post Number: 281
Registered: 08-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 10:10 pm: | |
Hank,
At the recent Construct 2015 in St. Louis, Gerry Gutierrez and Brad Prestbo from Sasaki Associates made a presentation on coordinating keynotes and specifications. Maybe there are recordings available on line? You could check in with them directly.
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