Parking Stackers

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Author Message Randall A Chapple, CSI, CCS, AIA, SE, LEED AP Senior Member Username: rachapple Post Number: 88 Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 04:20 pm:    Has anyone worked with parking stackers that can shed some light as how you specified them. I am working on a project that includes pitless and pitted double stakers and these things don't seem to fit the CSI mold very well. There is some technical data but nothing the translates well into a CSI specification. I believe they belong in Division 13. Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS Senior Member Username: michael_chusid Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 04:34 pm:    11 12 00 Parking Control Equipment ? Michael Chusid, RA FCSI CCS www.chusid.com www.buildingproduct.guru Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1398 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 04:35 pm:    Actually Randall, more like Div 14. Klaus Parking is one of the biggest in Florida, many of the highrise condos use them to increase parking space. Additionally I prepared specs for a Robotic Parking Garage on Miami Beach that was supposed to be a prototype, yet to hear about a repeat. Bruce Roden, President of the Atlantic Division has a spec section and info he can forward to you. I just had a brief tussle with Bruce because they "accidentally" put my name and moniker on a spec section that I did not author and gave it to my client on a mega high rise, so Bruce knows who I am and he definitely owe me one, feel free to use my name. All these stackers are pitless, pitted stackers are used in automotive work and those might be included in Div 13. Bruce E. Roden, Sr. Mechanical Engineer, President KLAUS PARKING SYSTEMS ATLANTIC, INC. 655 NW 128th Street Miami, FL 33168 Tel: 305-687-5733 Cell: 305-807-0064 Fax: 305-687-5734 E-mail: klausflorida@comcast.net Visit us at www.klausparking.com Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1399 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 04:38 pm:    Michael, Parking Control Equipment is clearly for the control of vehicles, gates, barrier arms, vehicle scanners, card control units manuf by Amano or federal, nothing to do with lifts. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1315 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 04:54 pm:    How about 14 45 00 "Vehicle Lifts"? Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1400 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 05:04 pm:    I forgot to mention that Klaus uses Section Number 14452, Klaus doesn't issue specs in 48 Division format. When I asked them to do it, they added a zero to the section number, issuing specs as 014452...frustration set in. Ronald L. Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP Senior Member Username: specman Post Number: 1316 Registered: 03-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 05:25 pm:    48 Division format? Ron Geren, FCSI, AIA, CCS, CCCA, SCIP www.specsandcodes.com Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1401 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Tuesday, June 16, 2015 - 11:32 pm:    Sorry Ron, I refer to the 2004 MF as 48 division, 50 division scares many of my clients, CSI should have followed the psychology of retailing: its better to price a product at 49.99 than at 50.00. In reality my jobs seldom include divisions greater than 33, and so my clients don't care about the other divisions, and 50 divisions really turns them off. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1407 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Wednesday, June 17, 2015 - 08:22 pm:    The ultimate "parking stacker" is being built in Sunny Isles Beach, FL at the 60 story Porsche Tower, this is a very high end condo where homeowners will be able to lift their cars along side their units of this 60 story building. The Developer (Gil Dezer) designed a glass box that your car is driven into and than the box is lifted up to your floor via a Dezervator deposited in your sky garage. So if you have $7 mil available for the lower priced unit, there are a few units left for sale. And if you have $40 mil avail, the 4 story penthouse is still available. http://miami.curbed.com/places/porsche-design-tower http://therealdeal.com/miami/blog/2015/06/12/check-out-the-dezervator-in-action/ BTW, there are no specs on this job, nor on Mr Dezer's other highrise buildings, I've lost count. I wrote the specs on one Dezer high rise, but Dezer refused to allow their use, ironically my client was the GC who wound up using the specs to negotiate subcontracts. Oh yeah, the specs were in 16 division format. Randall A Chapple, CSI, CCS, AIA, SE, LEED AP Senior Member Username: rachapple Post Number: 89 Registered: 12-2005 Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 09:24 am:    From what I could gather it seemed like the vehicle lifts like the ones used to work on cars were in Division 14 and automated parking and double stacker where one car is loaded on top of another car like the one I am doing seems to be in Division 13. I guess these things are popular in San Fransisco. Anonymous (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 12:54 pm:    Randall, I think your question as to what division the section belongs in is one of intent. Div 14 - Conveying Equipment is meant to specify equipment that conveys people, products, things, cars(?), etc. Div 13 - Special Construction is for specifying special assemblies and materials in those assemblies (swimming pools, aquariums, radiation protection, special purpose rooms, special structures, etc.) That said, I would make a distinction between parking stackers as different than a vehicle lift or elevator used for vehicle conveyance. Ultimately, the stacker would be used for compact vehicle storage, correct? MasterFormat lists section 10 56 29.23 - Stacker Storage Racks. It seems like an odd fit, but one that might be what you are looking for. Jerome, despite your retail psychology, I think you might be trying to sell 48/50 division format wrong to your clients. If they are scared of length, why mention the number of divisions? The length of a project manual depends on the number of sections included (ie. how many things you need to specify), and how concisely the specifier can write them ... not the version of MasterFormat. I'm curious to know if phrasing the discussion not around the number of divisions, but instead around adjectives like "current," "new," "supported by CSI," (and conversely) "outdated," "old," and "unsupported," would result in different opinions from some of your clients. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1412 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 01:28 pm:    Anon, in the private sector, $$$$ talks, most of my clients don't know or care about CSI, I've used the terms you suggest and sadly their response has been - well, why do we need specs at all, Anon you should read my posts regarding what is happening in SFL regarding specs, there are billions of dollars of projects under construction w/o specs, and unfortunately that trend is continuing, and what is really surprising is some of the architects involved in these projects are world class architects, Sir Norman Foster for example is the Design Architect on a condo high rise project that has no specs, Bjarke Ingels has several projects under construction w/o specs, all of these starchitects are not setting much of an example. My colleagues should not be arguing MF95 or MF04, they should be looking at how to promote specs in the private sector, IMHO, if specwriting becomes non existent in the private sector, the public sector is next.... Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1413 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 01:39 pm:    Randall, there are a lot of these stackers being used in SFL, and every job I've been on that has specs lists them in Div 14 or 11, certainly not Div 13. I see that Colin lists them in Division 11 under Parking Control Equipment, IMHO that is incorrect. Parking Control Equipment involves user interaction, Car Owners do not interact with the parking Stackers, Insurance Policies won't allow that, the preference is that you never see your car on a rack, the preference is you present your ticket, your car is brought to you and you leave. The only interaction you have is the few bucks you slip the attendant if you are a nice guy. Insurance Companies want you as far from the equipment as possible. In fact the newest equipment is extremely robotic, that even an attendant has little interaction with the car until it is on terra firma. Colin Gilboy Senior Member Username: colin Post Number: 405 Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 01:45 pm:    I have parking stackers listed in Division 13 under Integrated Construction: http://www.4specs.com/s/13/13-4500.html With a cross reference to Div 11 for Parking Facility Equipment: http://www.4specs.com/s/11/11-1200.html As a result of this discussion I added a cross link in Division 14 referencing the Div 13 page: http://www.4specs.com/s/14.html Colin Gilboy Publisher, 4specs.com 435.200.5775 - Utah 800.369.8008 Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1414 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 01:51 pm:    The man is on the ball...thanks Colin. Randall, Harding Steel has an excellent website with lot's of videos and graphics, I have specified Harding Steel on projects, but it seems that for the $$$ at least in SFL Klaus is selling like hotcakes. Jerome J. Lazar, RA, CCS, CSI, SCIP Senior Member Username: lazarcitec Post Number: 1415 Registered: 05-2003 Posted on Thursday, June 18, 2015 - 02:02 pm:    BTW, even though most SFL condos are not seeking LEED Certification, these automatic parking systems contribute to LEED Certification, due to the reduction in the parking footprint and probably for the recycled steel used in their fabrication. In Miami, all new buildings must be designed for LEED Silver certification.