Type N or Type S in brick veneer

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Author Message Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 589 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 11:29 am:    I have a structure with brick veneer, and the bottom 3 or 4 courses continue below grade. Type N is the mortar specified for the brick veneer, but the question has come up whether Type S needs to be used in the below grade courses. According to BIA tech notes, veneer mortar is recommended as Type N, but below Grade is Type S. The structural engineer says they use Type S, but that is for structural CMU that is below grade.I am not sure which condition (“veneer” or “below grade”) and whether Type S would work in this non-structural application. Dave Metzger Senior Member Username: davemetzger Post Number: 579 Registered: 07-2001 Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 11:39 am:    Three or four 4 courses is 8 to 10+ inches. Assuming the brick veneer has a CMU backup with dampproofing, or better, an air barrier on the cavity face of the CMU inner wythe, I don't see that it is practical to use a different mortar type for such a small distance. Another option would be to use CMU instead of brick for the below-grade portion of the outer wythe; that could be built at the same time as the CMU inner wythe, with Type S mortar. Curt Norton, CSI, CCS Senior Member Username: curtn Post Number: 223 Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 11:50 am:    Brick really shouldn't be below grade. Ever. It leads to rising damp among other things. If the architect can't be talked out of it, the cavity should be filled solid with mortar and a flashing used to weep water our of the cavity above grade. The type of brick and it's physical properties will have a big impact on how well it will (or won't)stand up to being below grade. In warm dry climates it may do better, but it is still a bad idea. I would recommend contacting your local IMI representative and talk with them. http://www.imiweb.org/about/contact.php User (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 11:54 am:    It would not be prudent to extend brick veneer below grade. Moisture in soils would migrate into mortar joints and deteriorate mortar. We always maintain a clearance of +/- 4" exposed concrete foundation from F.F. to grade. Robin E. Snyder Senior Member Username: robin Post Number: 590 Registered: 08-2004 Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 12:06 pm:    I should clarify...the discussion of "below grade brick" has already been had and the architect is putting brick below grade, it is a concrete footing backup, with mortar behind the brick and flashing/weep above grade William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 935 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 19, 2015 - 12:11 pm:    Robin, I concur with the above, and we avoid brick below grade as much as possible. But when we can't avoid it we parge the face of the brick that is below grade. We also fill the cavity solid to the backup masonry or concrete wall solid - and not with mortar but with grout. This backup masonry has the air barrier coming down and transitioning to the waterproofing below grade. Then the brick is built with the parging and then the waterproofing comes back up over the brick area that has been parged. The throughwall flashing and weep line is above the solid grouted/parged area. Makes for a really tricky wall and detailing when you have a facade that is on a sloped site! But that's what we always do. William William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX Louis Medcalf, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: louis_medcalf Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2010 Posted on Thursday, May 21, 2015 - 03:26 pm:    So, your designer likes mold and moss growing on brick? I never saw brick run below grade until I moved to TN 20 years ago. We always used stepped foundations in Ohio, generally 1/2 - 3/4 inch back from the brick face for a nice shadow line. I keep fighting it here, albeit without much success. Between grass and other landscaping, who cares if a little concrete shows? Not owners! William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS Senior Member Username: wpegues Post Number: 936 Registered: 10-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 10:56 am:    Parging avoided the masonry being exposed, no mold or moss issues. William C. Pegues, FCSI, CCS, SCIP Affiliate WDG Architecture, Washington, DC | Dallas, TX